The Dark Side of Roofing: A Candid Chat with Adjuster Adam Denne

On Top Of Roofing

Episode Summary

In this engaging episode of "On Top Of Roofing Podcast with Cody and Eric," we dive into the nuanced world of roofing claims, the critical relationship between contractors and adjusters, and the impact on homeowners. Kicking off with a light-hearted moment about technical difficulties, our hosts introduce Adam Denne, a seasoned adjuster with a unique perspective on the oft-misunderstood dynamics between contractors and insurance adjusters. Through a mix of humor, real-life anecdotes, and expert insights, Cody, Eric, and Adam unravel the complexities of roofing claims, from the initial assessment to final resolution. They discuss the importance of understanding insurance policies, timelines, and the pivotal role effective communication plays in protecting the homeowner's interests. The episode doesn't shy away from the challenges faced in the industry, emphasizing cooperation and mutual respect among all parties involved.

Key Takeaways

Bridging the Divide

Understanding the roles and responsibilities of adjusters and contractors is crucial in navigating roofing claims, emphasizing mutual respect and cooperation for the homeowner's benefit.

Insider Insights

Adam Denne shares valuable insights from his experiences as an adjuster, highlighting the importance of knowledge and communication in handling various types of losses effectively.

Policy and Procedure

A deep dive into the significance of comprehending insurance timelines and policies, ensuring homeowners are well-informed and prepared throughout the claims process.

Challenges and Solutions

Discussion on the common challenges adjusters and contractors face, offering solutions that foster better outcomes for homeowners.

Guest Bio

Adam Denne brings a wealth of experience and a unique perspective to the table as a former adjuster turned advocate for effective communication between roofing contractors and insurance professionals. With various titles and designations in the insurance industry, Adam's expertise is invaluable in demystifying the claims process, advocating for homeowners, and promoting a collaborative approach to resolving roofing issues.

[00:00:51 to 00:01:03] Cody introduces the podcast and mentions technical difficulties with an echo in the background.

[00:01:03 to 00:01:16] Cody jokes about people wearing headphones at playoff games to avoid echo.

[00:01:20 to 00:01:28] Cody assures that the technical difficulties have been resolved.

[00:01:28 to 00:01:56] Cody explains the purpose of the podcast and introduces Adam Denne as a guest.

[00:01:56 to 00:02:23] Cody mentions the common confrontation between contractors and adjusters, highlights Adam's experience as an adjuster.

[00:02:23 to 00:02:36] Adam playfully refers to roofing contractors as the dark side but asserts that they are the good guys.

[00:02:38 to 00:02:54] Cody emphasizes that everyone, including Adam, is just doing their job to protect the homeowner.

[00:02:54 to 00:03:18] Cody explains how Adam helps homeowners with various types of losses, including roof claims.

[00:03:19 to 00:03:25] Cody asks a light-hearted question about a female roofer gaining followers on TikTok.

[00:03:28 to 00:03:29] Eric asks about the rating for the upcoming joke.

[00:03:33 to 00:03:42] Cody jokingly mentions that only three people are watching the podcast and prompts Adam for the answer.

[00:03:42 to 00:03:48] Eric delivers the punchline to the joke, mentioning the importance of flashing.

[00:03:48 to 00:04:21] Cody thanks someone named Cannon for sharing the joke and then proceeds to ask Adam about his titles and designations.

[00:04:21 to 00:04:31] Cody jokes about his phone taking too long to say Adam's name due to all his titles.

[00:04:33 to 00:04:48] Adam explains that he earned several designations in the insurance industry for bonus incentives.

[00:04:48 to 00:05:06] Adam lists the various designations he obtained: PCls, FCls, AAI, AIS.

[00:05:06 to 00:05:27] Eric provides additional information about two designations related to identifying fraud.

[00:05:27 to 00:05:42] Adam shares his motivation for obtaining designations related to agent experiences and customer interaction.

[00:05:42 to 00:05:54] Eric clarifies the meanings of AIS and AI as agent designations.

[00:05:54 to 00:06:13] Adam acknowledges that he has specialized knowledge but emphasizes that he is an adjuster.

[00:06:13 to 00:06:31] Cody asks Adam to explain the lifecycle of a claim when it reaches his desk.

[00:06:31 to 00:06:41] Adam mentions different ways to file a claim, including through an agent or online.

[00:06:41 to 00:06:49] Eric adds the initials for the first notice of loss (FNOL) and explains how carriers receive claims.

[00:06:49 to 00:07:01] Eric explains that non-license adjusters handle the initial claims process as customer service advocates.

[00:07:01 to 00:07:16] Eric mentions how the claims are entered into the system and assigned to adjusters.

[00:07:16 to 00:07:35] Adam describes how he is activated as an adjuster when there is a spike in claims in a particular area.

[00:07:35 to 00:08:03] Eric explains that with his carrier, claims go to an independent adjuster before reaching Adam's desk.

[00:08:03] Before getting into different sides, have you been on those sides?

[00:08:18] I've always been a staff catastrophe adjuster, working for insurance carriers like State Farm, Allstate, etc.

[00:08:31] Independent adjusters (IA) work for intermediary companies like Pilot. They have the same licensing authority.

[00:08:54] Independent adjusters have different financial authority through the carrier compared to staff adjusters.

[00:09:11] Independent adjusters sometimes have limited or no authority, but staff adjusters have more authority.

[00:09:26] Independent adjusters are automatically dispatched claims in case of spikes in claims due to disasters.

[00:09:41] When activated, the claim is rerouted to the catastrophe adjuster's inbox. They handle it from there.

[00:09:52] The number of catastrophe adjusters sent depends on the quantity of claims.

[00:10:00] Some carriers focus more on independent adjusters, others focus more on staff adjusters.

[00:10:15] Some carriers avoid independent adjusters due to higher cost and the expense of sending someone out.

[00:10:31] Independent adjusters cost more per transaction, carriers prefer minimizing expenses.

[00:10:46] The story takes place focusing on the current model of the catastrophe adjuster.

[00:11:04] Once a claim lands on the adjuster's desk, they take ownership and contact the customer.

[00:11:19] The office adjuster is also assigned to the claim and handles it throughout its lifespan.

[00:11:30] The catastrophe adjuster schedules inspections, writes estimates, makes payments, and closes the claim.

[00:11:47] When closed, the claim remains inactive until reactivated by the office adjuster or customer.

[00:12:15] Once a claim is truly closed, it means the final payment has been issued.

[00:12:31] Closed means there is no adjuster actively working on the claim from the carrier's perspective.

[00:12:49] Claims can be reopened with a simple phone call from the customer.

[00:13:07] Some states have timelines for reopening claims due to prompt payment of claim statutes.

[00:13:36] Carriers may make a note of the file if a claim is discussed post-closing, but won't technically reopen it.

[00:13:55] In Texas, claims have time constraints, usually 180 days or one year, before being considered a new claim.

[00:14:07] Most carriers prefer one-year policy terms to distinguish between addressing damages and filing suits.

[00:14:24] Texas statute gives homeowners two years to file a lawsuit for action under homeowner's insurance.

[00:14:24] Although the policy states one year, carriers often address important claims within 18 months.

[00:14:43] Some carriers strictly follow the policy language of 180 days or one year to cut off claims.

[00:15:02] Policy varies between one year from the date of loss or one year from the notice of loss.

[00:15:18] Reading the entire policy, including endorsements, is crucial to understanding the timeline.

[00:15:39] Exception date indicates subsequent timeline for policy renewal, while first notice marks awareness of damage.

[00:16:04] Carriers rely on customers to provide the date of loss in case of non-weather-related damage.

[00:16:39] Some carriers proactively notify customers about recent weather events that may qualify as a claim.

[00:16:55] Carriers now send proactive texts to initiate claims, making it easier to handle damages promptly.

[00:17:21] Catastrophe events are always weather-related and involve a significant volume of claims.

[00:18:02] Catastrophe teams are deployed when multiple homes are affected by weather events.

[00:18:14] Insurance companies determine cat events based on the volume of claims in a specific area.

[00:18:31] From an insurance perspective, a single tornado affecting a small area is not considered a catastrophe.

[00:18:54] Carriers set their own thresholds for declaring a cat storm based on policies in force.

[00:19:04] The number of policies in force determines the risk level for weather events in a particular area.

[00:19:15] Different carriers have different levels of involvement in specific areas affected by a cat event.

[00:19:39] Staff cat adjusters typically handle around 50-100 claims, while IA adjusters have no limit.

[00:19:57] IA adjusters can receive up to 150 claims at once, depending on the workload.

[00:20:12] Cat adjusters have limited time availability, while IA adjusters may be worked to the ground.

[00:20:28] Carriers have varying schedules for cat adjusters, such as 20 days on and one day off or 23 days on and five days off.

[00:20:45] If you are a staff adjuster, it behooves them to give you time off.

[00:21:02] As an IA adjuster, they will deploy you to an area as long as there are claims.

[00:21:21] Cody's brother-in-law is now an adjuster, they both came from car audio to this industry.

[00:21:37] Chip and Adam are meticulous, smart as whips, contractors can't pull anything over them.

[00:22:02] Cody has been meeting fewer adjusters, but it varies by carrier.

[00:22:12] Different carriers have different methods for scheduling claims and allocating time.

[00:22:22] Adam determines the severity of the claim and how much time he needs to allocate.

[00:22:33] Hail claim in Minnesota requires more time due to extra buildings, each region is different.

[00:22:45] Some carriers use a system similar to Uber for scheduling claims.

[00:23:07] It's split 50-50 between carriers using different methods of assigning claims.

[00:23:22] Adam prefers the carriers that just give him claims and let him figure it out.

[00:23:30] Scheduling claims involves learning the region, traffic, and making a lot of phone calls.

[00:24:02] Recent storm in Mansfield had big hail, interesting results on the roofs.

[00:24:18] Every event is different, different carriers, traffic, materials, and damages.

[00:24:43] Hail could vary in density, from solid to conglomeration of small stones.

[00:25:23] The uplift and temperature at higher elevations affect the density of the hail.

[00:25:38] Adjusters experience challenges explaining to homeowners why there may not be damage.

[00:26:08] Cody acknowledges that there can be a contentious relationship between contractors and adjusters.

[00:26:38] Adjusters have to deliver news to homeowners who expected a new roof but don't see damage.

[00:26:48] Eric is not bothered by difficult situations and focuses on doing what's right.

[00:26:58 to 00:27:13] And that's why it doesn't bother me. I tell them exactly what they have.

[00:27:13 to 00:27:38] What they don't have, and if I come out, I try to teach or treat each one like, it's my grandma from Minnesota.

[00:27:38 to 00:27:49] Sometimes it's bad news and I don't. Like telling them, but I know that I'm right when you say it.

[00:27:49 to 00:28:15] This is what your policy can pay you for. We just go from there.

[00:28:15 to 00:28:29] So I don't know if they're new. Or just wrong or uninformed, because honestly.

[00:28:29 to 00:28:47] If I get a sense that they. Know they're wrong and they're saying something contrary to the truth, I handle those differently.

[00:28:47 to 00:29:00] When I tell them, I say, your contract, I'll point out, has told you that you have devastating hail damage to your roof.

[00:29:00 to 00:29:07] I don't see any damage to your roof. I don't see wear and tear. I don't see hail.

[00:29:08 to 00:29:19] What do you do with that information? Hire anybody you like to make any repairs.

[00:29:19 to 00:29:31] To another roofer and tell them you. Had a roofer that says, roof is trash, it's damaged by hail, it's beyond. Repair, and it can't be salvaged.

[00:29:32 to 00:30:02] And then whatever they said, have them call me.

[00:30:02 to 00:30:29] But now, a lot of times there's a ton of items that aren't on a claim.

[00:30:29 to 00:30:41] I can tell you my opinion, and this is one.

[00:30:42 to 00:30:56] We didn't have digital cameras. We would take a Polaroid, take a picture of the house.

[00:30:56 to 00:31:07] And companies have evolved with technology for good reason.

[00:31:07 to 00:31:12] Guidelines, and document it appropriately.

[00:31:16 to 00:31:29] Lost my train of thought entirely.

[00:31:29 to 00:31:41] All we would care about was, well, I say we would care about.

[00:31:41 to 00:31:55] This is where my opinion comes in. The deductibles are 200 and 5500.

[00:31:55 to 00:32:14] So they're thousands of dollars of deductible.

[00:32:15 to 00:32:28] They do all this stuff so they can have a $5,000 deductible.

[00:32:28 to 00:32:47] More and more on the claim other. Than the roof, it pushed both sides to look at a totality of damage.

[00:32:47 to 00:33:01] We'Ve been using for 20 plus years became more detailed and it had more.

[00:33:01 to 00:33:14] It's a really good program and it's. Seven out of ten major carriers use it.

[00:33:14 to 00:33:23] And because of that, when you go. Out and look at the claim, in. Order to make sure that they're fully.

[00:33:23] Indemnified, adjuster and contractor should be looking for every item on the estimate.

[00:33:39] Eric's goal as an adjuster is to never hear from the customer again.

[00:33:46] Both adjusters and contractors want to do a great job and move on.

[00:34:05] Homeowners have avenues for disagreement, such as second inspections or supplements.

[00:34:27] Eric sees the contractor as an extension of the customer and prioritizes communication.

[00:34:55] Contractors want to ensure everything is okay and avoid conflict with adjusters.

[00:35:04] Adversarial relationships benefit no one, as adjusters control the checkbook.

[00:35:19] Cody shares stories of contractors and adjusters behaving poorly and highlights avenues for resolution.

[00:36:06] Both contractors and adjusters can have bad actors or make mistakes.

[00:36:30] Insurance claims shouldn't be equated to life or death situations like policing.

[00:36:49] The stress experienced by adjusters and contractors can be significant.

[00:37:23] Adjusters often seek advice from each other as they all have different opinions.

[00:37:44] Different adjusters may approach the same claim with different estimates due to subjectivity.

[00:38:09] Adjusters have a higher workload during the claims process than initially anticipated.

[00:38:51] Different carriers have different structures, with some handling claims cradle to grave.

[00:39:04] Some carriers have large inside groups to handle questions and supplements during the claims process.

[00:39:22] Different adjusters may have different opinions, which is why seeking a third opinion is important.

[00:39:32] Asking the same person for a second opinion will yield the same decision.

[00:39:43] Letting a different adjuster look at a claim ensures an honest representation for the customer.

[00:39:53] I like it when you ask another adjuster for their opinion if you have a question or disagree with me.

[00:40:09] Recently, we've had to ask for a lot of second look inspections, but it often ends up with the same result.

[00:40:20] I always put a note in the file admitting I was wrong, just in case I missed something.

[00:40:54] It's important to have experienced adjusters on the inside, as sometimes things get missed.

[00:41:04] Usually, experience is more valuable in the field staff than the desk staff.

[00:41:32] When virtual inspections started, some desk staff didn't know basic terms like turbine or shingle.

[00:41:58] Some desk staff lacked knowledge about types of shingles, causing confusion for adjusters.

[00:42:14] The adjuster test doesn't provide practical knowledge needed for the job.

[00:42:29] The test is more about memorization and theory than practical adjuster skills.

[00:42:44] The test focuses on legal requirements and timelines, not on estimating damage or materials.

[00:43:12] Losses homeowners typically consider are hail damage, wind damage, or debris problems on the roof.

[00:43:31] However, excessive granules on the driveway may not necessarily indicate the need for a new roof.

[00:43:47] As an adjuster, I listen to homeowners' concerns about granules but don't jump to conclusions.

[00:44:03] I acknowledge the excessive granules but...