The Current podcast

The Current Podcast

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JPMorgan Chase’s David Pinto-Carpenter on redefining media buying for a 225-year-old banking giant 23:03

8 hours geleden23:03

23:03

JPMorgan Chase's David Pinto-Carpenter shares how the banking giant is adapting to changing consumer expectations for financial services, what he thinks is holding back more investment in CTV and why he’s comfortable not being a first mover. Episode Transcript Please note, this transcript may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio. Damian ( 00:00 ): I'm Damian Fowler. Ilyse ( 00:02 ): And I'm Ilyse Liffreing. Damian ( 00:03 ): And welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. Ilyse ( 00:10 ): This week we're delighted to talk with David Pinto-Carpenter, the managing director of Media Strategy and Insights at JPMorgan Chase. Damian ( 00:19 ): Now over 225 years old and is situated across 100 global markets. JPMorgan Chase is one of the world's most respected financial institutions, and for the second consecutive year, fortune ranked JPMorgan Chase, the fifth most admired company in the world. Ilyse ( 00:35 ): After 10 years of agency life, David moved over to JPMC where he's focused on how the company invests in its digital marketing strategy to stay current with the fast moving media environment. Damian ( 00:48 ): We start by asking David about how his agency life informed his thinking at JPMorgan Chase Ilyse ( 00:55 ): After having spent nearly 10 years on the agency side of media. What inspired you to move over to the brand side and how has that experience kind of shaped your approach at JPMorgan Chase? David ( 01:10 ): Right, so well, that really ages me, so appreciate that. But I think I've always been interested in two sides of media. One is how media can influence consumer behavior and also how media can move business. And I think it's a bit hard to get a real accurate answer of how media moves business when you don't see the other side of the business. So agencies are, there's always typically a gap between clients and agency in terms of information sharing, what can be passed back and forth. So I was fortunate enough to, as my last agency assignment work on the Truth Initiative, which is a ( 01:48 ): Youth pro non-smoking nonprofit, and they were very open with their information. Essentially we're all working on a common cause. The cause is maybe the only thing in marketing where you actually save lives and therefore our information is your information, whatever can make us better, we'll do it. My clients gave us access to their web analytic platform. We had a full understanding of their tagging infrastructure and which actions were scored higher and lower and where we were trying to drive people and how people were traversing across the funnel as well as their data management platform. How do we create audiences? How do we collect data on an ad impression? How do we ultimately transform that into groups that we can use to target better? And for Truth, they're trying to reach 13 to 24 year olds with the message they don't want to hear. The hardest thing to get in action, and their action is to sign people up for advocacy. ( 02:40 ): I was able to see front and back everything that's happening and be able to use that to build tools and capabilities that allow us to model forward outcomes. We're basically able to say, okay, now we can not only project how much the outcome will cost, but also we can anticipate how people will respond to the ads as we put them out into market, and that included creative, that included everything else. We were able to reduce the amount of working media they needed to achieve their goal by 20%. We just said, take that back. You don't need it. You're a nonprofit, you don't need to spend it anymore. That was my last gig. And then at the time, my current manager, Tracy- Ann Lim, chief media officer at JPMC started to contact me asking if I was interested in coming to JPMC. So first questions I asked were, what kind of systems do you have? ( 03:24 ): What kind of access to information will I have? And then what is the objective? What does a team look like? So the team was very nascent, but the technology and the systems were very similar to truth, actually. It was a no-brainer getting access to or having the potential to access some portion of JPMC data to make marketing more effective and see how it works. And then a nonprofit, let's say JPMC’s, I dunno, a hundred times the size of the nonprofit, maybe that's some job security it'll take me, took one year to make something happen on the nonprofit. Maybe we'll take a hundred on JPMC, but it's a fun thing to do. I'm very grateful for that experience. I worked across a lot of different categories, a lot of different businesses, but I don't think we would've been as successful at moving things as fast as JPMC if Tracy and I didn't come from an agency background. There's nothing that can really prepare you for working at JPMC. Damian ( 04:18 ): One question I have about that. When you worked on the Truth Initiative project, it sounds like you would have a very clear mission statement. How do you think about that mission statement in your current context, in your current role? David ( 04:33 ): So we have, depending on how you count them, between 30 and 40 business units across JPMC globally, and all of them have some desire or ambition to market something out into the world. So I think we treat it as a series of levels. We have corporate level marketing and that's, you know, what does JPMC stand for? What is it doing in the communities? What information do we need to get out? So people do any number of things, either decide to open a banking relationship with us, decide to trust us with their investments or even come to work for our company. We compete on a lot of different fronts. So that's the top. And then from there, we cascade down to business groups, business units. But I think our purpose as recently defined by Carla is to make dreams happen for everyone everywhere, every day. And I think that's the culture that we try to carry through in the marketing decisions that we make. Yes, of course we want to open more accounts, but also we want to do right by our customers and make people understand that not only is this a great place to work, it's a great place to bank, but there's a lot of good that's happening from business that originates from JPMorgan Chase. Ilyse ( 05:42 ): It can be a tricky sector to markets because it's so heavily regulated - finance that is. I'm curious what your media strategy looks like. What kind of customer insights can you rely on to inform your overall media plan? David ( 05:59 ): Yeah, so we do a lot of design target work. We do a lot of segmentation, but I think specific to media, we treat our media strategy a lot more like financial planning and analysis in that we are – it’s a couple things: One, if we don't make more than we spend, we're a bank, we're probably not going to get that money again. So we treat an initial investment as very sacrosanct. We need to be very disciplined in the way that we spend it and use the best information we have to make sure it'll be a success. And then we try to get better over time. So we work with our finance partners in every business to understand what are the financials of each product, how are they changing, what do we know about the interaction effect of the channels that we market and the other channels that we use for marketing? ( 06:44 ): And how do we triangulate and forecast forward what we think that benefit will be and then prove that out over time through testing. In that respect, the notion of a campaign is important in the sense that it's an organizing construct to get work done and there's a message that runs and we create a message and it runs in the advertising space, and we're trying to get better at quantifying that impact. What does good creative look like and what does bad creative look like and what does that do for the business? But for us, we buy, for lack of a better word, blank space for another message to be put in. And so we've built a lot of muscle memory over time on what works in one business, how do we adapt it to another? Our business is similarly situated so that we can believe that this will be a predictable outcome for the foreseeable future. How long do we think this outcome will last? And then the proof is in, do we hit our numbers at the end of the year? Damian ( 07:33 ): You've touched on this a little bit Ilyse, but it's a sector, the finance sector is a conquesting sector in some ways, and on the face of it, there may seem to be little differentiation between one big bank and another. But I'm curious from your point of view in terms of branding, how do you think about JPMC setting itself apart? What are its differentiating points and how does that manifest itself in how you think about your work? David ( 07:58 ): Right. Yeah. So it's very important for me to keep one foot out of JPMC and not think like a marketer but think like a human being. And in that respect, if you open a checking account, you open a savings account, generally speaking, those are going to be pretty similar products from bank to bank. But I think where the real race is right now in financial services is experiences. So how do we deliver value to you by being an account holder of one of our products? And how is that different from the way that you are treated or the way that you might feel or the things that you can experience or unlock through other products? We have a pretty robust travel platform and dining platform. We invest heavily in bonus accelerators for travel and dining and other spaces. And we're starting to open progressively larger lounge business in addition to our branches. So we treat all of those as places where we can make an impression on people to give them an experience that is, for lack of a better word, white glove. David ( 09:00 ): That they couldn't get anywhere else and trying to make the differentiation on those experiences. And I think that's where the biggest battleground is. Damian ( 09:07 ): It's so interesting to me to hear you talk like that and how a company like JPMorgan Chase is actually thinking about lifestyle and experiences and in lots of ways you are marketing a membership or a membership of a kind of elite club, if you like. Is that fair? David ( 09:24 ): I think for some of our products, we compete in affluent and there's a lot of benefits that we give to affluent account holders that are meant to give unforgettable experiences, experiences they can’t get anywhere else. But I think even our core experience in branches, we want that to be a differentiating factor too. So we invest totally separate from marketing, but we invest a lot in making sure that our bankers have the right information about the customers that they're serving at their fingertips so that when someone comes in and has a question that they know the entire history of that person's relationship. And then in call centers as well, investing a lot in applied AI and ML to do the same thing. So if you call, we want to understand exactly who you are and help get you the help that you need as quickly as possible. We treat all of our products across the spectrum as trying to be differentiated in that way. Damian ( 10:14 ): So maybe it's a better way to talk about it as you think about the different customer experiences at different levels. David ( 10:19 ): Right, yes. Ilyse ( 10:21 ): Yeah, I would say that's definitely like a audience first approach to marketing. What about when it comes to buying ad space and media space? David ( 10:31 ): Yea, so without going into too much detail about the secret sauce, I'll say that we obviously have relationships with a quarter of the United States in terms of our customers and our households that bank with us and millions of small businesses as well. There's a lot of information that's proprietary to us that we are able to leverage and we take the protection of that data very seriously. There's a lot that we can't use and we can't access and we have to secure approval to get it. But I think generally speaking, our products are aligned to a series of firm-wide strategic segments, and we track growth against those segments. That's at the highest level and as you go progressively lower the matrix of the audiences that we might use or the audience we might prioritize becomes more matrixed and complex. But we have an audience centric approach to targeting. We are getting better in our capabilities to orchestrate journeys. So I think our ambition or our desire is to be as close to one and personal as we can be given the restrictions that we have in data access. Ilyse ( 11:36 ): So your digital marketing strategy definitely signals a future that is focused on measurable outcomes. I'm curious about how you're using channels like CTV and digital out of home to connect that brand awareness with that performance level. David ( 11:54 ): Sure. So I would say our strategy has been focused on measurable outcomes since day one. As I mentioned, we wouldn't get money if we weren't able to prove that it was working. But we also think about media in a full funnel context. So awareness drives consideration, drives acquisition, and they're all tied to a person and that person is interacting with multiple messages every day. So I think in the past, and what we're trying to progress away from is the campaign specific mindset. Every product works in a silo, they're all targeting a general audience. And once a product launches on awareness channels, we're no longer on awareness channels. So we've spent a lot of time proving that interaction effect between awareness and consideration acquisition so that we can say what's happening up here is benefiting up here, but we also know the unique benefit of what's happening at the top. ( 12:44 ): But I think the two biggest things holding CTV back at the moment for us, I can't speak for the rest of the advertising industry, and it seems like they're spending a lot, is price and brand safety. So on the price front on average CTV ads among publishers, I will not name are two to three times higher than broad reach cable or some mix that's more efficient in nature. Brand safety is another in that you can buy an unlimited amount of CTV that's running in a lot of different fragmented places who you choose to buy it direct. You can choose to buy it through a hardware provider or you can choose to buy it in some app aggregator and all of those will air to some household in some content somewhere. And you know what the household is. So where we've been pushing a lot on brand safety is can we get, it doesn't have to be similar to TV per se, but we definitely need to know what programming we're running against. ( 13:38 ): Especially if we're talking about long tail connected TV programming. Most of it's not brand safe, but there's a lot of connected TV content that's tied to children's programming. And if it's going to a household and we can't exactly confirm where that ad brand, who knows, we're running against 12 year olds this entire time. So we're pushing for more information back through brand safety vendors and publishers to validate exactly where that's running in the same context or in a similar context to TV logs. I think once that happens, we invest in the same way that we would anywhere else. Ilyse ( 14:16 ): Do you think it'll get there sooner rather than later? David ( 14:19 ): Or is the data incoming? David ( 14:22 ): I think so. Brand safety technology really just as a matter of getting the information from the hardware or the app provider itself. Damian ( 14:32 ): As we look back 2024, we wrote a lot about how the upfronts were changing and there's been a lot of press about upfronts changing. What's your perspective on the upfronts? You talked a little bit about the differences between linear and CTV. Has that impacted the way you think about your products across linear and streaming? How has the upfronts changed things, speeded things up, slowed things down. David ( 14:55 ): So the upfronts are always, I don't know if I'm, was it masochist or sadist, but the upfronts are usually my favorite part of the year because you can get a lot of decisions done at the same time and you can look much longer term than sometimes even my agency days clients or in our cases the business are thinking themselves. So it forces a lot of conversations on what is the outlook of the business, what is the outlook of the products you're prioritizing? And then on the other side, how have macro changes impacted what we think will work and at what price? So I don't think it's an exaggeration to say the last four years more has changed in consumption patterns than the previous 10 before that. I think it has had a pretty massive impact on the marketplace in that anyone who's watched cable TV recently will watch endless reruns on cable tv. And so it's really just a matter of capturing passive intent. There's not all that much original content that is being developed specifically for TV anymore. ( 15:59 ): So it's a bit more like, I don't know, run of network or video advertising 10 years ago. So we have to take those two things and counterbalance if we know that the bulk of live TV is happening with hyper consumers who are watching it a lot and have a different footprint than those who are watching streaming. But we also know that streaming, ad supported streaming is a very small portion of the total streaming universe. How do we munge those two things together to find the right opportunity? And how do we validate that change is ultimately resulting in a response among the people that are most likely to respond for a particular product or service advertising. This year we undertook a big evaluation. Essentially it felt like the inflection point to say, we can't really just go to market in the same way that we always have in the upfront because there's not as much inventory as we want to buy in the upfront, but it's a good opportunity for us to think about what is a holistic video investment long-term and do we make drastic changes this year or do we make drastic next year? ( 16:58 ): So we essentially undertook a process where we built versions of that strategic segmentation that I mentioned where all of our products are aligned against, and then flip that same segmentation around to understand how networks and digital video packages and connected TV packages all reach these different segments. And some of that's a slew of tools, not any one tool has that whole picture. So we use different platforms for different parts of the picture and then started to reorient the entire investment around how do we best reach the people that are most relevant to this product in a way that sort of normalizes the whole investment for the firm. Ilyse ( 17:43 ): So this was the first year that you actually looked at all the puzzle pieces, I guess, and put those together. Was there something that inspired that in the market specifically or just the ongoing change throughout the past couple of years? David ( 18:00 ): Yeah, I think that what really prompted that change was the options that we have to procure media in different ways. And so now we have different options to say, what is the best method of buying? Is this something that we need to buy as a commodity at the best price? Is this something that we need to buy that's highly targeted to a household, but we need to control the programming? Is this something that we within a reasonable bounds know what the content categories are and we think that there's opportunity in the response of people watching in these content categories in connected tv, or is there on the opposite side a commodity for video where we say if everything's going to run in this standard topic allow list and we're trying to get tonnage but control for the way an ad is served. And that flexibility didn't exist to the extent that it exists now, I think our flexibility to choose those different routes is also relatively recent development through our in housing efforts. And also we have great very flexible agency partnerships to say, we're going to look at this together. We'll figure out the best combination of entities or methods or pipelines to get access to the inventory that we want at the right price. And sometimes that is a collaboration and sometimes it's something we do ourselves. So that flexibility gave us a lot more options to think critically about where and how we secure video upfront inventory. Ilyse ( 19:27 ): Traditionally, banks are perceived as brick and mortar establishments, but these days they're all online and digital. How does that change the way you go to market? David ( 19:39 ): Right. So each business has some blend of digital and branch originated business. So we think about business bank. If you're a small business owner, you're more likely than not going to go into a branch to make sure you know who the person is that's handling your money for your business. Whereas credit cards are much more digital first. So that blend of who opens, which accounts, where is usually a pretty good predictor of what channels will work well to solicit a response. We have a very big app and website. We're also one of the most conservative cybersecurity companies on earth. So there's a lot of capabilities that marketers like that we will never have or capabilities that we have to work a lot harder to evaluate whether or not it's worth it for us. We treat that as a good challenge. ( 20:35 ): If you can't explain exactly where information is going and why it's being used, you probably shouldn't use it in the first place. I don't think that's unique to finance. So we are able use that to our advantage too. So if we're not a first mover and everyone is working out the kinks on our behalf and then we say, okay, we're comfortable with this because we're seeing how the landscape is utilizing this new tool or this new technology or some other part of the technology ecosystem makes it so that we don't have to use it in the way that it is built to be used, but we can customize it and this company will work with us. That helps us to be effective when we need to be effective. And we also don't need to be a first mover because a very small change in improvement for us might be the revenue of an entire company in another place. ( 21:25 ): So it's worth it to be methodical and very focused on getting it right, getting things secure, using our digital capabilities in a responsible way. But then I think that the most important thing for us is that our branches, we view our branches as a superpower. It's a place where the vast majority of our customers form an opinion of us. If you go into a branch and don't have a good experience, then you also won't have a good opinion of us. And the marketing effectiveness is partially on what ads you put into market. It's partially based on the impression people have of you, and it's partially based on the opinion that people state of you based on their experience. And so we are always looking for ways to learn from what is working in the branches to improve our marketing capabilities. So I don't think that there's necessarily a trade off. It's trying to find the way that they both benefit each other and then what mix of channels ultimately encourages the type of interest that will grow the business in the unique way the business is configured. Damian ( 22:23 ): Great. Thank you so much for these really thoughtful insights. Ilyse ( 22:26 ): Yes, thank you so much. Damian ( 22:33 ): And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. We'll be back next week. So stay tuned. Ilyse ( 22:38 ): The Current Podcast theme is by Love and Caliber. The Current team includes Kat Vesce and Sydney Cairns. David ( 22:44 ): And remember, we treat our media strategy a lot more like financial planning and analysis. We need to be very disciplined in the way that we spend it and use the best information we have to make sure it'll be a success. Damian ( 22:54 ): I’m Damian. Ilyse ( 22:55 ): And I'm Ilyse. Damian ( 22:56 ): And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave as a review. Also tune into our other podcast, The Current Report.…

The Current Podcast

1
Meijer’s Derek Steele on building a Midwest retail media powerhouse 18:31

7 dagen geleden18:31

18:31

Family-owned grocery chain Meijer is using its Midwest roots to stand out in the retail media crowd, according to Derek Steele, the company’s VP for marketing. Episode Transcript Please note, this transcript may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio. Damian ( 00:00 ): I'm Damian Fowler. Ilyse ( 00:02 ): And I'm Ilyse Liffreing, Damian ( 00:03 ): And welcome to this edition of the current podcast. Ilyse ( 00:10 ): This week we're delighted to talk with Derek Steele, group VP for marketing and customer strategy for Meijer. Damian ( 00:17 ): Meijer is a supermarket chain that's just celebrated its 90th birthday. Founded in 1934 in Michigan. It started life as a grocery store. Ilyse ( 00:26 ): It's still a family owned business, but now has grown to 500 locations across six states and employs more than 70,000 people. Damian ( 00:35 ): Now, Derek has been with Meijer for more than 16 years. He spearheaded the company's shift into e-commerce, his customer loyalty program, and more recently the launch of its retail media network. So that's where we'll start. Dar, you've been with Meijer for 16 years and so it's fair to say you've sort of grown up with the company. Can you tell us a little bit about that journey? Derek ( 00:58 ): Yeah, absolutely. So I've grown my entire retail career within the company, really the first and only retailer I've worked for. Started off in the merchandising side of the organization. My first real job was a buyer in our consumables area, so really learned the nitty gritty of how do you manage vendor relationships, how do you understand the customer, the trends and the products that they're interested, and then how do you craft a category strategy around that? I've had a chance to work in a variety of different areas within our fresh produce, fresh foods business, understanding the supply chain, and it's just fascinating to understand where that product comes from. And then prior to getting over to the marketing side, I let our dairy and frozen department, which my kids still think is the best job I ever had, got eat a tremendous amount of ice cream, frozen pizza and still recovering from some of the effects of that Ilyse ( 01:42 ): Man. Sounds good. Derek ( 01:43 ): Oh god. Damian ( 01:44 ): More recently you have been looking at customer loyalty programs and obviously e-commerce is a huge growth category right now. Can you talk about that shift and how you spearheaded the move for the supermarket chain into that category? Derek ( 02:00 ): Yeah, absolutely. At Meijer, we'd been focused on e-commerce and looking at it for quite some time and really the impetus for change with us, a lot of consolidation happening within some of the third party marketplace business. We had some partnerships in that space and really decided that given where the customer was going, it was going to be important for us to really own that relationship with the customer. That's extremely important to us. And so while there's great partners that we continue to partner with through our meyer.com and our Meijer app business, we really wanted to manage that relationship one-on-one with the customer. So we started that effort in 2019. We launched our e-commerce platform in the fall of 2019 with the plans to really steady and slow growth. And then of course March, 2020 hits and it was really all about, Hey, how do we scale? It went from this interesting business idea to absolutely critical in the lives of our customers in the Midwest. Ilyse ( 02:53 ): Yeah, that was good timing for Derek ( 02:55 ): Them. Yeah, good timing. There's probably three or four months that I could choose to forget, but really fascinating to see how the entire organization rallied around that and the speed which we were able to develop that business and grow that business for our customers. Damian ( 03:08 ): And then of course, you had all this incredible customer data at your fingertips. At what point was it inevitable that you launched a retail media network? Derek ( 03:17 ): Yeah, I mean you talked about it, right? We started in loyalty, moved into e-commerce, right? And I think these three things together along with retail media, all three are foundational from a retail business standpoint. I think really it started with an impetus from our suppliers, the brands that we work with saying, Hey, as we're doing marketing programs with you in that more traditional shopper marketing way, we want to understand more. We understand who the customer is, who the audience is, how that's performing. And so as you start to ask those questions, it really naturally leads you into that space of retail media. And so really our decision to enter it was, Hey, we need to be right for our brand partners and we need to be right for our customers. And really felt like those things were coming together and the opportunity to launch a retail media network was there. Ilyse ( 04:02 ): Now there's multiple ways brands can work with retail media networks. Can you give us some examples of how your clients are leveraging data on sites and offsite? Derek ( 04:13 ): Yeah, absolutely. So at Meijer, we really believe in the relationships that we form with our CPG partners. I think if you were to ask within the industry meier's ability to work and tailor those programs, it's really the key on what we're built with. And so as we launched a retail media network, that's really how we think about, it's really an extension of that relationship with the brands. So we partner closely with our merchants to understand what is key, what are the categories, what are the trends that are happening and driving. And then we really work alongside with the marketing sides of those organizations, with the brands, with the agencies to craft, okay, how do we come to market and how do we specifically drive that strategy in Meijer with our Midwestern customer and our audience? So really focused on that relationship building that kind of one-on-one, and the ability to be nimble and responsive to the community as they have opportunities that they want to tackle at Meijer. Ilyse ( 05:03 ): Yeah. How does that really fill that regional need, as you say? Derek ( 05:07 ): Yeah, certainly as the retail media space has become filled with a number of retailers, and so we get this question all the time, clearly there are players out there where if you're looking for size and reach, there are bigger players in the market, but when we look at our territory within the six states we compete, we really dominate within those areas. We understand that customer. I think our data would show that over 50% of the households within our trade area are shopping at a me store. And so we would argue that you really can't reach that audience, that unique audience that we have if you're not engaging with me. And so we feel like we play a very important role within those states and those territories that we serve. Damian ( 05:47 ): One of the things that's very interesting about the space is the talking points around what is retail data and what is retail media. Could you unpack that a little bit, that distinction for us a little bit? How do you think about those two things? Derek ( 06:02 ): And we might use slightly different language than you do Damien, but I think the world of marketing and retail has been a part of our strategy For a while, we would call it shopper marketing. So the activations that we're doing in our stores, the opportunity to provide some branding in some of those locations, we would call that shopper marketing. It's really top of the funnel impression based, but still at that point of purchase. But just by its very nature, we've not always had the ability to target and measure that, so we would distinct that as shopper marketing. When we think about retail media, we really think about the ability to define an audience, target content to that audience, and then measure the performance all the way through the point of sale, whether they're reacting on our website through our mobile app or if they're completing that transaction in the store, that measurability that ability to get to closed loop reporting. That's what we would define as retail media at Meier. Damian ( 06:51 ): In terms of the different channels off site that you use, where does it show up? Derek ( 06:56 ): So today we have the ability to do display ad. We do closed loop tv. We're working through YouTube, a number of channels along with the different social media channels, meta, Pinterest, and a handful of others that we're working on lighting up as we speak. Damian ( 07:11 ): So it's like a very omnichannel experience. Derek ( 07:14 ): Yeah, we understand we need to be where the customer and the audience is at, and so as that continues to evolve and change, we know we're going to need to continue to evolve and change along with that. Damian ( 07:23 ): Now, you recently announced a new closed loop measurement capability. Could you talk a little bit about this? What capability does that bring and how does that help drive better outcomes Derek ( 07:32 ): For your partners? Yeah, absolutely. As we partner with brands, one of the things we heard front and center as we began this project was that measurement is absolutely key. And I think there's a number of retail media brands that have started just from an impression basis and an audience basis and then bring the closed loop along. After that, we really focused on at launch, we wanted to have that capability, and so our focus from a technology standpoint is however that customer and audience chooses to complete that transaction. We want to be able to measure that. That's not easy. We've gone through some of the challenges and growing pains along with that, but at Meier, regardless of what channel that customer chooses to complete that transaction, and frankly many of our customers complete that transaction across multiple channels, we want to be able to measure that. And so that's what we've built out from a closed loop reporting standpoint. So when you put that message in front of an audience at Meier, whether it's online or in store, no matter how they choose to transact, we're going to be able to measure that and provide that reporting and insights back to our brand partners. Ilyse ( 08:30 ): What would you describe as some of the challenges there that you brought up? Derek ( 08:35 ): From a technology standpoint? At any retailer, when you look at all the different channels, a customer can complete a transaction. Historically, those have been very different streams of data. Aligning those streams of data along with all the customer information that we have to really measure that end to end a lot of different parts of the organization, a lot of different pieces of technology to bring together along with a number of partners in the industry who help us make that all work. So that's probably been the biggest challenge is coordinating all the different technology pieces to make that happen. Ilyse ( 09:03 ): Yeah, I think the industry overall, the retail media industry and retail media networks are all coming together to try to figure that out. Damian ( 09:13 ): I wanted to ask one more question here just in terms of the opportunity of the retail media network. Has it allowed you to expand as it were, brand partnerships? Derek ( 09:22 ): Yeah, I think it's allowed us to enter different conversations with brands than we've been able to enter before. And so there's messages, there's channels, there's tactics, there's places in the customer journey before they make a purchase that with a traditional shopper marketing funnel, we shouldn't have a good way to enter and be part of that conversation. And now whether it's on our own channels, within our app, on our website, or using our audience information to reach those customers wherever they're at, we're able to have a richer conversation about a more full funnel approach to how we can bring those brands to market at Meier. Ilyse ( 09:53 ): And one thing we talk a lot about is how that has increasingly become omnichannel and an omnichannel environment where all these customers are spending their time. Can you talk a little bit about that and what channels you're excited about? Derek ( 10:08 ): Yeah, it's interesting. When we look back at our data around our customers, more than 50% of them and an increasing percentage of them, regardless of where they complete their transaction, are coming to us to search for a product within seven days of making that purchase. And so we're seeing that behavior and it's no longer this distinction to the customer between, am I having a digital interaction with Meyer or am I having an in-store interaction? From a customer behavior standpoint, those two things are blending together. And so it's no longer is this an e-commerce transaction or is this a in-store customer? It's a Meier customer, and so we need to meet that customer wherever they're choosing to gather their information and then make that purchase. Damian ( 10:50 ): Do you see the same customer shop online and then come into the store? Are you able to kind of measure that and observe that? Derek ( 10:58 ): Yeah, we see that We have our digital loyalists who they've made that transition fully, and so that's part of their life now, that's how they interact with us. But I would say most of our customers we're seeing engage with us in a digital and in a physical store. I'll take my own family, for example. We are heavy digital shoppers at me, but there are those instances in those times where it's either more convenient or I want that exploration, I don't know what I want, and I'll leverage the store in that regard. And so week to week, day to day, based on the what's going on in the kids' activities and the family life, we'll see that switch. And I think that's true for our customers as well. Ilyse ( 11:31 ): Are you doing anything to personalize that experience and bridge the gap between that digital experience and in-store experience? Derek ( 11:38 ): Yeah, I mean, personalization has been really a part of how we've thought of going to market even before we started media. We think about personalization in every one of our retail channels, whether it's organic search, whether it's the mailers we're sending into your home and offers, whether it's servicing promotional content. We have thousands of promotions that are running every week, but what's the most important thing for our customer, that individual customer? That's part of what we're doing. We're looking at how do we allow brands to interact in some of those personalized experiences, both through audience targeting, but also then in that moment where I'm serving up promotional content or items that you've purchased before. Well, how do I let a brand influence where in that experience, that item may show up, never inserting an item that a customer hasn't purchased because we want to honor that personalization for our customer. But if there are stories or items or times where it's more important to a brand to get that purchase, we're trying to find ways to enable them to be able to do that. Ilyse ( 12:34 ): Very interesting. Is there an example that you can share? Derek ( 12:37 ): Yeah, so I mean one of our most used features by our customers is our buy again, right? I mean, it's a very quick way to make a cart. And when we're building carts in the grocery e-commerce world, there's a lot of items to get in there. Historically, we've used sort of a frequency recency model for what shows up in that, and we're starting to allow sponsored products within that. So allow brands to invest to kind of boost up where in that carousel, their product may show up. Ilyse ( 13:01 ): Very cool. Well, I would love to dig into your background a little bit because it's fascinating. So you were a flight controls engineer for the space shuttle program, and obviously now you're in marketing. Could you talk about that transition and then I guess how that background has really helped you in your marketing career? Derek ( 13:22 ): Yeah, absolutely. It's a question I get all the time in getting tired of the conversation about retail media not being rocket science, because obviously it takes one, but no, I mean, first five years of my career, that's what I did. So I had the opportunity to work on the space shuttle program, absolutely a dream come true. In fact, in fourth grade for Halloween, I dressed up like an aerospace engineer Ilyse ( 13:44 ): And Derek ( 13:44 ): No one knew what I was, right? I was in tears. It was actually the last time I ever dressed up for Halloween. But really enjoyed the technology side of that, enjoyed the adventure and the intrigue of it, but also found I had a passion for leading and a passion for working in a competitive industry. There was only one space shuttle, so there's no other one to compete with. So made a career change. 16 years ago, retail wasn't on my radar screen. I continue to run into people that have stories like mine where I never thought I would get into retail, but what attracted to me about it was just the pace of change and innovation that happens in this industry, probably one of the most dynamic industries that there is out there. And the opportunity to lead at a pretty large level relatively early on in your career. ( 14:27 ): So made the transition over 16 years ago, grew up through the merchandising and buying side of the organization, and then really found a home within the marketing organization. Again, I talked about I'm still a nerd at heart, and so I love the combination of the customer insight, the technology, the brand and their interest. And so being able to sit in this unique space of understanding and being able to grasp that technology piece, being trained from a merchandising standpoint on how to understand customer need, I found a nice niche in here. And I like to say at the end of the day, engineering is just structured problem solving. You break down a problem into its components, you solve the components, you solve the problem. And turns out that's applicable in a lot of different places. Ilyse ( 15:08 ): Those seem to be quite a few engineers turn marketers. And that does seem like to be the thorough line there as well. Engineers are more Derek ( 15:15 ): Creative people than they give us credit for. Damian ( 15:18 ): Yeah, absolutely. And so the sort of through line is data here then that helps shape strategy, of course, increasingly so in the world that we're in now. Derek ( 15:27 ): Yeah, I think being able to pull insights out of information, that's what I always preach my team, is that the best data set doesn't always win the best insight or the best story that you can tell from that data wins. And so I think marketing is a great place where you get to combine those two things. And at the end of the day, that's what we're doing. We're telling stories that are based on facts that are compelling to our customers. Damian ( 15:48 ): Just to go back to the space shuttle program, what was the toughest challenge you faced when you had that Derek ( 15:52 ): Job? So I joined the space shuttle program right after the Columbia accident, so if you remember that. Ilyse ( 15:58 ): Yeah. Derek ( 15:59 ): So our first year and a half was all about recertification, getting ready to fly again. And I dunno if I've ever put this story on tape before, but the first flight after Columbia, I worked in the room above the mission control center and we were the ones watching all the data and see what would happened. And the first flight afterwards, they saw something float away from the space shuttle. And so they said to everyone, they said, Hey, go scrub all your systems, see if we can figure out what that was. Did something break? Is this what's going on? So it's a mad scramble to go through the data, and I found seven little pieces of data that I could not explain everything else. I could explain these seven pieces of data. I could not explain Ilyse ( 16:34 ): Aliens. Derek ( 16:34 ): And so I sent this back to the mission control center, young engineer, proud, maybe I just saved the astronauts, and I received an email back, congratulations. You identified the seven times they flushed the toilet over the last two days. We got this one covered. Ilyse ( 16:47 ): That's hilarious. Derek ( 16:48 ): That's good. I like Damian ( 16:49 ): That. Oh my god. Wow. Ilyse ( 16:52 ): That's so wonderful. Damian ( 16:53 ): One question we like to ask is are there any sort of innovations in the ad tech space that are kind of on your radar, can still use an aeronautical metro on my Derek ( 17:02 ): Radar? Damian ( 17:03 ): Yeah. Derek ( 17:03 ): I mean, are there innovations? Absolutely. I mean, I think there's a tremendous amount of innovation. I think what we're focused on right now is what are our customers, and by that I mean the brands and agencies that we're working with, what are they looking for? And we're really focused on how do we take the friction out of that opportunity, that experience of working with Meyer. And so a lot of focus on the different self-serve platforms that are out there. How do we engage with that to drive a richer, more friction-free experience for our customers? Damian ( 17:31 ): I like my shopping to be friction free. Derek ( 17:34 ): Absolutely. Damian ( 17:35 ): Yeah. Well, Derek, thanks so much for joining us on the current podcast. Absolutely. Thank you. And that's it for this edition of the current podcast. We'll be back next week. So stay tuned. Ilyse ( 17:52 ): The current podcast theme is by love and caliber. The current team includes Kat Vesce and Sydney Cairns. Derek ( 17:58 ): And remember, the best data set doesn't always win the best insight or the best story that you can tell from that data wins. And so I think marketing is a great place where you get to combine those two things. And at the end of the day, that's what we're doing. We're telling stories that are based on facts that are compelling to our customers. I'm Damian ( 18:15 ): Damian, and I'm Ilyse. And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also tune into our other podcast, the current report.…

The Current Podcast

1
Grubhub’s Marnie Kain on standing out in a crowded market 19:13

14 dagen geleden19:13

19:13

The food-delivery company’s VP of brand discusses the business’ 20-year history and how it stays front of mind for consumers. Episode Transcript Please note, this transcript may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio. Damian: I'm Damian Fowler Ilyse: And I'm Ilyse Liffreing. Damian: And welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. Ilyse: This week, we're delighted to talk with Marnie Kain, the VP of Brand and Creative at Grubhub. Damian: Grubhub recently celebrated its 20th anniversary. It was founded in Chicago in 2004, and it was the pioneer food delivery service. A forerunner to the booming e commerce delivery sector. Ilyse: Two decades on, the business has scaled. It now has a 375, 000 restaurant partners in over 4, 000 U.S. cities. Damian: Marnie joined the company in September 2023, just as it was planning its big birthday celebrations. Ilyse: So Marnie, can you tell us about the challenge of marketing this brand, having joined just Grubhub in 2023? Marnie: Well it was a very easy decision to make to go to Grubhub. I had spent a number of decades on the [00:01:00] agency side, working with clients across many different categories. And one thing I learned is that it's really fun to work in a category that you enjoy. And who doesn't love food and the delight and joy of delivery that it brings? So I was able to really unmask my experience across many sectors like CPG, mass retail, QSR, casual dining, health and wellness. travel and so on and really bring that expertise and experience to the table to solve some really interesting challenges in a very crowded landscape. Ilyse: Now, it is interesting with your background because, like you said, you've been across agencies for a long time. What would you say is the differentiating factor being brand side now? Marnie: Well, being brand side you definitely have greater visibility to the complexities of the business. I think you [00:02:00] believe you understand that when you're on the agency side, but what you have visibility to is far less than what really goes on. And it is challenging to sell things in across the organization because there are many stakeholders, cross functional decision making and priorities that aren't necessarily brand marketing. Ilyse: Now let's talk about Grubhub's marketing strategy a little. So the delivery service sector has become quite competitive as you know. As all consumers know, we have lots of choices. How do you think about differentiating Grubhub in this space and maintaining that market share Marnie: We really look at it from a consumer standpoint and what's meaningful and relevant to our customers. What conveniences do they need? What are their pain points? What categories do they need delivery from? So we're [00:03:00] expanding even beyond restaurants into categories like grocery, convenience, and others that will soon come. So it's really about being in service of the customer and their needs. As far as what is differentiating about us, it's really about tapping into and building upon what they see as valuable. So one of the biggest ways that we're offering value, outside of just everyday value that are always available on the app, are through partnerships like the one we have with Amazon. Ilyse: Maybe you could tell us a little bit more about the partnership. Andhow Grubhub really works with brands and what platforms it chooses when it comes to those types of partnerships. Marnie: Well, Amazon is a great example of really understanding what's important to consumers. Obviously, Amazon delivers pretty much everything, but what they [00:04:00] don't deliver is food from restaurants. And so the synergy between the two delivery giants is quite clear. The opportunity was to really bring added value to Amazon Prime customers, and that is what we've done. So our Amazon partnership initially launched before my time in 22 and, what you would get as an Amazon Prime member is the ability to get one year of Grubhub Plus for free, which is our membership service that essentially provides $0 delivery fees which is our premier benefit, additionally $5 cash back on pickup orders, priority delivery and other exclusive offers. This past May, we built on the initial success and really deepened that partnership to bring added value to consumers and greater sales for our restaurant partners by making the benefits ongoing to [00:05:00] Amazon subscribers. So Prime members get - as long as they're a Prime member - $0 delivery on Grubhub. Additionally, what's really unique, is that you can shop on Amazon for Grubhub. There's actually a tile on the grocery tab that you can go through and actually link your Grubhub account, get your $0 delivery benefit and start shopping, straight within the Amazon app. Ilyse: I really didn’t know that. Damian: That must really help you, in terms of partnerships like that must be a big help in terms of scaling. Marnie: It really is. We started, as early days for Grubhub, we were really looking to help restaurants scale. 20 years ago, restaurants delivered their menus by putting them in mailboxes in the neighborhood and also keeping them available outside of their restaurants. And that was their scale. Now they have access to so many consumers [00:06:00] through Grubhub which originally was a tech powered menu aggregator and ultimately a tech powered order system for restaurants. Today, it's really a three-sided business model where we service restaurants and continue to help them scale, but we also support a very large driver community that makes a living working for Grubhub as well as bringing new conveniences every day to consumers. Damian: Let's talk about that a little bit. You mentioned that how it started and you joined the company just as Grubhub was probably thinking about its 20th birthday in 2024. what was the sort of nature of the thinking around how it was going to mark this important anniversary? Marnie: I think the important thing when you consider that it was our 20th anniversary, is that, it's really all about what we can do for our customers. They are perhaps [00:07:00] interested in the fact that we've been around for a long time - we're the O. G in the category and that means we stand by our product and our reliable brand - but mostly they just want what they want, when they want it. They want value. They want to know that we have the restaurants that they're interested in. So the first thing we did was offer literally 20,000 offers to our customers, free items that they could get from restaurants like McDonald's, Popeye's, Pizza Hut, Wendy's, Panera, Taco Bell. We also offered 20 percent off several other restaurants and convenience stores, and we celebrated this under the banner of 20 years of deals because that's really what Matters to consumers and the value is something that we continue to pursue through partnerships like Amazon, where they're saving over three hundred dollars annually on [00:08:00] not paying for delivery for delivery fees on Grubhub. So when I think back to 2004, it's hard to believe some of the other things going on at that time. MySpace was the most popular social media. That's crazy. Mark Zuckerberg had just launched the Facebook at Harvard. Google was beta testing Gmail. Shake Shack opened its first and best, if you ask me, location in New York City and OutKast had the number one song, which was Hey, yeah, if that matters. Damian: I remember that. Marnie: It really is amazing how much changes in 20 years and even as a third-party delivery industry, that industry has changed so much from aggregating menus, and actually the delivery part of the business didn't even start until [00:09:00] 10 years into those 20 years. Damian: Wow. And he also started in Chicago as a local concern. And obviously you've built up a national presence since then. Can you talk a little bit about that? Marnie: Yeah, Grubhub did launch in Chicago in 2004, and it was the brainchild of the two founders and was about aggregating menus and fully in service of restaurants. it's beginnings are even technically before that because, the brand acquired the Seamless brand which started in 1999. But that acquisition happened in 2013. Each part of our evolution, we've [00:10:00] constantly been looking for new ways to bring value, to bring selection, to bring better service and speed to our customers. Ilyse: And now, what innovations do you see Grubhub making even in the near term to stay on top of like emerging trends and industry changes? Obviously, A. I. Is everywhere and I know that's one thing apps like Grubhub are looking into and experimenting with, but maybe even across creative. So I'm curious about that. Marnie: Yeah, I think that one area of excitement for us and great innovation is our campus business. So what many people don't know is that Grubhub's campus business started about six years ago with the acquisition of an Israeli based tech company called Topenia. And, today we work with more than 360 universities and, nearly 5 million students. And what's really interesting about this [00:11:00] partnership is that it's not superficial. It's not just: download the app and you be like a regular customer on our app. They actually, depending on the university, have their dining dollars go directly through Grubhub. So when you arrive at school, one of the first things you have happen at orientation is you are told to sign up for Grubhub and link your dining dollars. And One of the schools where my daughter actually goes is our flagship school, Ohio State University, and that is probably the most robust version of our campus partnership where we actually have the food from the campus restaurants and dining facilities delivered by robots, and I will tell you that it's pretty cool. The robots are available at a number of colleges and as we think about the future of the category, I think it's scratching the surface on what might be readily available as ways that we can you know [00:12:00] sort of buck the speed of, how we currently deliver in urban areas by bicycle and motorbike and, you know, in the suburbs by car. So I think, drone delivery or robot delivery could be on the horizon. I also think, creatively thinking about our different categories of delivery, we have an opportunity to create more curated and exclusive experiences. There are a lot of competitors that deliver from a lot of the categories that we deliver in, but it's really about how we combine our categories and verticals of delivery to create unique experiences that you can't find anywhere else. Damian: How important is what's going on in culture to the way you position yourself in market? Marnie: I think that culture is really driving everything and we do a tremendous amount of paid and organic social where we aim to capitalize on cultural moments. So, you know, as we see people talking about either the brand, or about [00:13:00] food, or about Charlie XCX, or whatever it is, that we can tap into and follow a meme, or join in the conversation. It's really important to be agile and to be able to get out there fast and just have a voice. It doesn't mean we necessarily have to create an entire campaign that taps into that cultural moment. But what we've learned is, it's really important to be in the conversation in order to drive relevance. It is a very crowded marketplace and there are many people spending a lot of money, many competitors, but we find that influencers are really helping us, to really speak to our customers in a moment when they're, craving food, wanting to order food and we've seen terrific engagement from the programs that we're doing as well as increased brand perceptions. And that's the other thing about partnerships, whether it be with Amazon or influencers [00:14:00] across the gamut, we really look to partner with others that help improve our brand perception and lift all boats. Damian: As you look ahead to later this year and beyond, what are the priorities for you as a brand? Is it a question of scaling, building more couriers, building more restaurants, building more consumers? What's the kind of game plan if it could look big picture? Marnie: Big picture, there's so much opportunity in this category to continue to grow, to delight consumers, and also to meet their needs. So, creating more intuitive and using AI elements of the app is really important. We have a ton of data about our consumers because they're in our ecosystem, but really leveraging that data using AI and creating more intuitive experience and more seamless experience in the app is definitely a priority. Also, as I [00:15:00] mentioned, more curated and exclusive experiences. How can we capitalize on this very unique mix of retailers essentially available on our app to create experiences that you can't find anywhere else? Partnerships is definitely a priority. How can we continue to leverage that and sort of aggregate value for customers. And finally, speed is really important and even distance of delivery because people are looking for the restaurants they love, they're looking to get them, when they want them. Ilyse: that note, with all those preferences and consumer habits that obviously leads to a lot of data that you have within the app, and you briefly mentioned, using AI to make that consumer experience a little easier on the end consumer. Can you talk about how that works with AI a little bit and perhaps maybe do you on the creative end tap that [00:16:00] data for future campaigns? Marnie: Really, we are exploring and experimenting with A. I. And we don't have the answer or the end of that story to share yet, but we all experience it on a daily basis being online and everybody's using chat GPT to write their speeches or whatever but in the case of food delivery, it really will allow us to become more intuitive, and that's really the key because people are looking for shortcuts. They're looking for brands that get them and know them and that understand their pain points and their inflection points. The other thing that we're doing, and this isn't necessarily using our own data, is finding opportunities for moments or milestones where we really can make a difference in people's lives. One example of this that you may have seen is we had launched in August of 2024, a special delivery campaign, which was targeted [00:17:00] at expectant moms, and we provided them based on their engagement and signing up their first meal after giving birth. And that was really based on the insight that as you're expecting, there's a lot of things you can't eat and you crave these things, whether they're sushi or believe it or not, deli meat, and a lot of things that could, could cause a bacteria or, an infection for the baby. So at the point where the baby is born, the first thought is, what am I going to eat? And we were able to meet that need with a special delivery from Grubhub. So it's really about using data to get into what's important to consumers as opposed to just for data's sake. Marnie: We have a ton of data about what consumers order and actually, every December, we produce some stats about where the trends are going and even some personal stats as a [00:18:00] Grubhub Plus member that you might receive about your own ordering habits. which can be very interesting because many of our employees find out that their kids are doing most of their ordering and they get surprised quite a bit. But one of the things that really surprises me is that the most ordered convenience store drink is not Diet Coke, which a lot of people guess. Not Celsius, which a lot of people guess. Interestingly, I know, it's Dr. Pepper. Marnie: Another one I'm always am surprised by is the fastest growing pizza topping. Ilyse: Pineapple? Marnie: Bingo. Yes, pineapple is the fastest growing pizza Ilyse: Not in New York. Marnie: Those are my two favorites. Damian: I like that, yeah. You should have a Grubhub quiz. Marnie: We'll get one to you. Ilyse: Is it like a Spotify [00:19:00] wrapped kind of thing? Marnie: It's exactly like a Spotify wrapped where you can learn about what you order. and then also what America's ordering. So it, it serves as a way to tap into the cultural zeitgeist. Ilyse: Very fun Damian: Alright, perfect. Thank you so much. Marnie: Thank you again for having me. Marnie: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. Damian: We'll be back next week, so stay tuned. Ilyse: The Current Podcast's theme is by Love Caliber. The current team includes Kat Vesce and Sydney Cairns. Damian: And remember, Marnie: There lot of competitors that deliver from a lot of the categories that we deliver in, but it's really about how we combine our categories and verticals of delivery to create unique experiences that you can't find anywhere else. Damian: I'm Damian. Ilyse: I'm Ilyse. Damian: And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.…

The Current Podcast

1
American Express’ Jessica Ling on tapping into Gen Z fandom with Olivia Rodrigo 21:12

21 dagen geleden21:12

21:12

Amex’s Jessica Ling sits down with The Current Podcast to discuss the biggest differences between marketing to business and to consumers, and how the brand considers the effectiveness and efficiency of marketing investments. She also touches on how Amex is reaching Gen Z by tapping into their passions and fandoms, such as a partnership with Olivia Rodrigo. Episode Transcript Please note, this transcript may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio. [00:00:00] Damian: I'm Damian [00:00:01] Ilyse: And I'm Ilyse Liffreing. [00:00:02] Damian: And welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. [00:00:04] Ilyse: This week, we're delighted to talk with Jess Ling, Executive Vice President of Global Brand Advertising at American Express. [00:00:12] Damian: Now, American Express, as everyone knows, is one of the world's most recognized brands. Thanks especially to its striking visual identity on its cards, which features the company logo of a centurion, which evokes trust and security. Now, Amex is a company that can chart its cultural presence through its legacy of brand campaigns, all the way to date with its powerful backing campaign. [00:00:35] Ilyse: Jess has been at Amex for the past five years. As part of her role, she oversees Amex's in house creative agency. During her time, she's helped grow the brand's offerings into experiences and benefits for its many members. [00:00:48] Damian: Now, Jess built her career at Amex first as a B2B marketer, but now she's a consumer facing brand marketer. We started by asking her about this transition. [00:00:57] Damian: Jess, thank you for being here. [00:00:59] Jess: Thank you [00:01:00] for having me. [00:01:00] Damian: I know that you've spent six years at Verizon doing B2B marketing and your first four years at Amex were also B2B, but you've shifted now into a different department. [00:01:10] What's that change like and what are the differences when it comes to marketing to businesses versus marketing to consumers? [00:01:18] Jess: Yeah, but it's a great question. I actually spent, I would say, probably the first 17 years of my career. In B to B and in revenue marketing. And even when I came to American Express, it was B to B marketing. But it was also performance marketing. So very, very heavy on the acquisition side. [00:01:35] What I would say is, more actually unites them than separates them, right? When you think about B2B versus B2C, it is really fundamentally about knowing your audience. It's about understanding segmentation. It's about being very anchored in insights, understanding what motivates and what challenges your consumer, whether that is a small business, corporate prospect or a consumer. It's a little bit different in terms of the way we bring our brand to life, right? When you think about, more business focused channels versus consumer channels, but I would say at its core, the discipline is the same. And in fact, the rigor that you bring from B to B into B to C enables you to be a bit more focused on what are the financial and revenue implications of the work that we're doing. [00:02:27] Damian: We're hearing that a lot more now about the CFO and the CMO being much closer together. Is that a factor for you as a marketer? [00:02:33] Jess: you as a marketer? Financial outcomes are very important to us as a brand. It's really important. We are a performance driven culture. Much of our marketing is performance driven. I would say even on the brand side of the house, We are incredibly rigorous, and so we think a lot about not just the efficacy of our investments, but the efficiency of them. [00:02:55] And so while I am thinking about, metrics that are a little bit, higher [00:03:00] in the funnel, so I think about consideration, I think about awareness, it's not consideration and awareness at any cost or by any means, right? So I still very deeply think, about the return on investment from a brand standpoint. [00:03:15] Damian: Just off the back of that, how connected are the pieces of this for you? You obviously focus on global brand strategy, but you're also very much focused on, the data side of it. how important is bringing those two things together? [00:03:37] Jess: It’s very very important and we think about it as much as a closed loop as possible. What insights go into the strategy? How do we leverage those insights throughout the customer journey? [00:03:42] And then how do we use data that we gain along the way to optimize, right? And so one of the things that I think can be a little bit dangerous as a one way street of insights into strategy, into plan, Without that back loop of optimization, were the insights that we used actually [00:04:00] accurate? How do we think about, improving not just the creative output or the media plan, but the foundation of data and insights that underscore it? [00:04:09] Ilyse: Now, American Express as a brand has gone well beyond just being a charge card or financial product, you have now positioned yourself as a brand that offers, its members like experiences and benefits. How do you think about evolving the brand while continuing to protect its legacy? [00:04:29] Jess: Yes, that's a question we think about every day. What I would say is that we don't think of ourselves as a credit card company, right? Or we're in the financial services category, but we're very much in the business of membership. And so when someone is thinking about our brand, We need to transcend the category of, that financial transaction or that payment moment. [00:04:52] And so our movement into experiences and lifestyle benefits is very much because we [00:05:00] believe that when you are an Amex card member, You are indeed a member, and that membership enables you access not just to seamless payment moments, but also to travel, to dining, to entertainment, and those are very sustainable categories for us. [00:05:18] Ilyse: Now Amex historically has been associated with wealth and status. You have the Amex gold card or the platinum card, for instance. And yet you've recently made moves to attract Gen Zers who perhaps, aren't your traditional customer. They're, they are getting older and getting more money themselves, for sure, but there's still some younger ones in that generation. [00:05:41] Ilyse: And you've done partnerships with Olivia Rodrigo. Can you talk about these campaigns and why it's important to really connect with the younger generation? [00:05:52] Jess: Well, first of all, Gen Z and Millennial customers are the future of our customer base. So it's very, important for us to [00:06:00] be building momentum with them. [00:06:01] We have a very deliberate strategy. If you think about our newest card members, 60 percent of our new consumer accounts are Gen Z and Millennial. And that's not by accident, right? We have been evolving. Our product propositions to be very dynamic and responsive. And so when you think about, the question of how do you protect the brand while evolving it? [00:06:21] What I would say is the brand is built on 174 years of trust, security and safety. And so when you think about consistency over time, what you give yourself permission to do as a brand is then evolve on that consistency, right? So in order to be innovative you have to start from a really strong foundation Where we found that innovation is very much speaking to younger audiences. [00:06:43] And so you mentioned the Olivia Rodrigo Partnership that's an example of something that's very important to us because As an Amex card member, you're unable to get closer to the things that you love, right? And so we really try to tap into passion and fandom. [00:07:00] And Olivia is an incredible ambassador for Gen Z. [00:07:03] And we're really excited about our ability to, whether it's pre sale, whether it's merchandise, get our card members closer to the music and the artists they love. [00:07:15] Damian: going back to your point about reading the tea leaves, reading the data. do you see when it comes to Gen Z consumers? And I know that's not a monolithic blog, but do they interact with the brand? in a different ways to say, more established customers. [00:07:31] Jess: established customers? Here's what I would say about Gen Z that we, we find really interesting as a brand. They care deeply about, supporting brands that share their values, right? And for us, it's, We are a values led brand, and we are not reactive necessarily to, the thing in front of us, right? We have been, as an example, in the business of supporting small businesses for a very long time. And what we find is that Gen Z consumers care deeply about community. They care deeply about small [00:08:00] business. And it's a very natural intersection with where American Express has always been. [00:08:04] And so You know, I think the trick is we're not creating a platform to respond to what Gen Z is interested in. We happen to already be there from a value standpoint, and we find that our consumers, especially the younger ones, it really resonates with them. And [00:08:20] Damian: and speaking of reaching, those audiences, are there any particular nuances to the way you go about doing that? in the current environment, we're talking about the rise of CTV and all of these different opportunities. [00:08:32] Jess: Yeah, there are a couple. I will. I'll speak to one example. We're really excited and proud of. We have had a partnership with the bear, which is a show on FX, for two seasons now. And one of the reasons we're so excited about it is because it's a new show. The conversation about the show is bigger than the show, right? [00:08:48] Just like as a brand, the conversation around Amex is bigger than the card. And so we really look for adjacencies that help us tap into the cultural zeitgeist, right? And when you think [00:09:00] about an opportunity like The Bear, it's the perfect platform for Amex. It's about a small business owner, it's about dining, there's incredible social dialogue about it. [00:09:09] And so that's one example of how we go outside of traditional advertising to build that connection and relevance. [00:09:15] Damian: On that point, I guess, the idea that it's a customer centric brand, could you say a little bit more about how you center and focus on the customer? [00:09:23] Ilyse: Yes, [00:09:24] Jess: absolutely. So we have a global brand platform. [00:09:27] It's called powerful backing, and it really is rooted in that 174 years of trust, security and service. And at the core are our customers, right? And so when we think about whether it's an ad campaign, whether it's a product, whatever it is, how does it manifest that brand promise of powerful backing? And one of the questions that we think about a lot is consistency through the line, right? [00:09:50] So. Whether you see us on social media, whether you see us in TV, whether you see us, in a more sort of direct response, type piece of communication, we still want to make sure that you're [00:10:00] feeling the brand come through, and that when you are a customer, every transaction, every interaction you have, you should feel backed, by the membership. [00:10:08] I want to [00:10:09] Ilyse: to talk a little bit about live sports because American Express has such a big presence at a ton of major live sports events. I believe like 47 venues and teams all together, which is just a huge number. and that includes like NBA and US Open, Wimbledon and more. why do these events hold so much power for Amex? [00:10:32] Jess: They hold power because passion around sports and live sports is an enduring passion, right? [00:10:38] It is. I think we just celebrated our 31st year of partnership with the U. S. T. A. And the U. S. Open. We have a very longstanding partnership with the N. B. A. We have a partnership with F one in the Americas that were very excited about. And it's because the conversation and the passion around sports is deeply meaningful [00:11:00] to our customers and our ability to get them benefits and access that are so connected to what they love. Is very important for us and is an enduring platform. What does it [00:11:11] Ilyse: it mean for a legacy brand like Amex that, dates back to 1847? I believe 1850, I was close. 1850, to stay relevant in today's world. and how do you, I guess, maintain that consistency as, a luxury product, but also integrated into, everyday life? Yeah, [00:11:33] Jess: I think it is about, very closely watching the balance between staying consistent as a brand so that our customers and our prospects. [00:11:42] know deeply what we stand for, and what experience they'll have once they become a card member and leveraging that consistency to be very dynamic and innovative on the product front. And I think that's how we balance it, right? When you think about the American express brand over time, it should still evoke [00:12:00] the same emotion, right? [00:12:01] Powerful backing, access to the things that you're passionate about. But when you think about how our products have evolved over time, If I point out just the recent gold card, right, we just refreshed American Express gold and it's full of incredibly relevant dining benefits, right? There's a Dunkin benefit. [00:12:19] There's a partnership with Rezzy and benefits there, which are very, very, they're very anchored towards speaking to the audience and what they're looking for today. So we really think about that complement between stable brand, consistent brand and dynamic products. [00:12:35] Damian: As you're in charge of the brand story, if you like, do you look back at the legacy of amazing campaigns that American Express has had in the, throughout the, last 50 years have a and build on that? [00:12:48] Jess: Yes, in fact, question a very, very rich history. And what I would say that I'm so proud of is that the history of our brand is often told through the advertising. Right? And so when you look back in time at [00:13:00] 174 years of a brand, and we do have this history, we look at it, my teams are trained in it. What you see is every Big moment in the company's history is paired with what was the advertising of the brand at that time. [00:13:14] And so for us, our history and our heritage, we live that every day. And when we think about how to bring that forward, it is with all of the equity of the advertising that came before us. [00:13:26] Damian: is question off that. Is era of fragmentation? [00:13:35] Jess: it's not because we have a global brand platform, right? So no matter where you are in the world You should feel the brand come to life in a way that brings powerful backing to the front. what we've made major progress on is making sure that as a consumer, when you take your American Express card with you around the globe, that you're confident in, the acceptance around, the world in terms of, being able to buy with confidence at merchants that [00:14:00] you want to support. And so we've made, huge strides there, but we continue to be a globally consistent brand. One thing I wanted [00:14:07] Damian: I wanted to ask you about, obviously American Express by definition is a U. S. brand. And I've noticed sometimes it's less used, perhaps in Europe. I'm wondering if you see areas of opportunity to build out the brand, build that growth story in other markets. [00:14:22] Jess: other markets? [00:14:23] Yeah, and I think, look, there are markets that very important to us. There are growing markets that we are, a little bit newer as a brand, in terms of our penetration there. but what I would say is when you think about, a market like the UK, you'll see us, you can, you'll see us come to life in powerful ways from a brand standpoint. You'll see us at Wimbledon. you'll see us in music festivals. And when you're out there using your card in everyday ways, it'll be a seamless experience for you. [00:14:51] Damian: Yeah, I do see that at Wimbledon and, and around those major music festivals. Yeah. [00:14:57] Ilyse: as a, charge card financial [00:15:00] product, American Express has a lot of consumer data at its fingertips. How does that data help you in any way with the creative process? When it comes to branding and campaigns, do you consider it whether it's like business outcomes or in the KPIs that you said? [00:15:19] Jess: mean, what I would say is, at its core, my job is to tell great stories, that are grounded in insights that, of course, are backed by data. what I would say is, when we think about our creative strategy and we look at data and insight, It's two things need to be true. They need to be true in culture and they need to be true for American Express. [00:15:39] If they're only true for one half of that equation, it doesn't resonate. And so I'll give you a quick example. we have a ton of data and in one of our recent travel studies, we found that I think it was over 75 percent of millennials want to take a solo trip this year. So it's certainly true for American Express, but you can't go on Tik and not see amazing [00:16:00] travel adventures of millennial and Gen Z people taking vacations alone, right? So again, it's an example of something that we're seeing our customers do and something that is true and identifiable in culture. And so that becomes a creative territory for us, right? How do we then create stories based on that insight? [00:16:17] And we launched a piece of creative. It's called all by myself, and it's about a woman traveling on her own to Greece, and she collects friends and experiences along the way. And of course. and it's leveraging the benefits of American Express. And so it's only through that combination that we really get the most out of the data and insights. [00:16:35] Ilyse: All right, so Jess, tell me, what does it mean for a legacy brand like Amex to stay relevant? [00:16:42] You obviously have been around since 1850, which is a long time. And how do you then maintain that consistency as a luxury product, but also integrate into everyday life? [00:16:55] Jess: great question. Um, and we think that all of the time. And [00:17:00] it really is, that balance between a very consistent, stable and disciplined brand, which over time you mentioned since 18 50 we have stayed true to the values of trust, security and service, right? [00:17:13] And so when you build on that foundation, you're then able to create a very dynamic product set that is responsive to the needs of today's consumers. And so one example that I will give because you asked about everyday value, Is that we recently refreshed the MX gold product, and it is very much built for purpose for today's customer, right? [00:17:35] And so when you think about the benefits on that card, it's very dining forward because we know that our customers, especially Gen Z and millennial customers are obsessed with great dining. They're obsessed with food and experiences, and so it's one way in which we keep true to the brand while also continuing to innovate and elevate through our products. [00:17:57] Damian: So Jess, you oversee Amex's in house creative [00:18:00] agency. What does it mean to have the agency in house? How does that give you flexibility and agility, which is one of the key buzzwords [00:18:07] Jess: buzzwords, right? It is, it's an incredible privilege to lead our in house creative agency. It's called On Brand. it's full of incredibly talented, creative folks, but also project managers and account managers and strategists. and we really leverage On Brand to create, excellent creative quality. On Brand. [00:18:27] Throughout the enterprise. And so, when I think about our brand, you think about The sort of big advertising channels that we do, and we have agencies of record who help us with that on Brent also contributes to that. But we do still have a roster of really, really close agency partners. But when you think about the internal agency, think about all of the advertising and communication that go out from the business units. [00:18:50] That talk to our colleagues that talk to prospective colleagues. and all of that, having that in house really led by brand stewards. These people work at the brand. They live and [00:19:00] breathe the MX brand. it pays dividends in terms of the quality of the work, our ability to partner across American Express. [00:19:08] and of course, to deliver more efficiency. [00:20:18] Damian: Okay, yeah, that's great. Thank you so much for your time and insight. [00:20:23] Jess: It was a pleasure. Thanks for having me. [00:20:26] Damian: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. [00:20:28] We'll be back next week, so stay tuned. [00:20:31] Ilyse: The Current Podcast's theme is by Love Caliber. The current team includes Cat Fessy and Sydney Cairns. [00:20:37] Damian: And remember, [00:20:39] Jess: When you look back in time at 174 years of a brand, What you see is every Big moment in the company's history is paired with what was the advertising of the brand at that time. [00:20:51] And so for us, our history and our heritage, we live that every day. And when we think about how to bring that forward, it is [00:21:00] with all of the equity of the advertising that came before us. [00:21:03] Damian: I'm Damian. [00:21:04] Ilyse: I'm Ilyse. [00:21:05] Damian: And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.…

The Current Podcast

1
Goalhanger’s Tony Pastor on building a global podcast brand 22:44

28 dagen geleden22:44

22:44

Goalhanger's Tony Pastor explores building the U.K.’s leading independent podcast production company which includes shows like The Rest is History, The Rest is Politics and The Rest is Football. Episode Transcript Please note, this transcript may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio. Damian: I'm Damian Fowler and welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. This week we sit down with Tony Pastor, the co-founder of Goalhanger, the UK's leading independent podcast production company. After a career as a TV producer, first at the BBC and then at ITV in the sports department, Tony teamed up with Gary Lineker, the former international football star turned broadcaster, to create the company. It launched its podcast hub in 2019. In just a few years, Goal Hanger has gone from strength to strength with hit podcast shows like The Rest is Football and The Rest is History, which apparently clock up 42 million downloads a month and counting. We'll get into the creative process in a minute about what makes these shows so successful. But first, I wanted to ask Tony about how Goalhanger was created. Tony: I set up Goal Hanger with my co host Gary Lineker, who in the UK is a well known media figure and former [00:01:00] footballer back in 2014. I'd been, a producer at ITV, a big TV company in the UK, and then left to set up my own production company. We concentrated largely on making sports documentaries, and then slowly the business changed, and, by 2019, we were launching our own podcasts, and in the last couple of years, it's become the main part of our business. Damian: You know, the podcast hub was launched, I know more recently than the actual whole production company and it's now like hosting some of the UK's most popular podcasts. I know that the company's just reported record audience figures for the May, July period this 2024. Big hit shows like the rest is football, which is co hosted by Gary Lineker. And the rest is politics and several others, you know, I'm kind of curious to how you achieved this in a world with, let's say, tens of thousands of podcasts. Tony: Well, it's a good question. [00:02:00] And the big challenge in the world of podcasting is discoverability. It's not easy for audiences, listeners to find new content. There's an awful lot of really good podcasts out there, but unfortunately they're not easy to find. We have had a bit of luck on that front because once you build a successful podcast, you can then tell people about anything new that you do. And there's no doubt that the number one way you can make sure that people know about a new podcast is if they're already listening to a podcast because they're on the right platform there, then they're enjoying the right form of medium. Once we had the rest is history at a super successful level, it made the launch of political shows and our entertainment shows and our sports shows that bit easier . Damian: So the rest is history was the kind of vehicle was the kind of prototype as it were. Is that fair? Tony: Well, actually we launched a podcast, that was a real niche podcast, in 2019. It's called we have ways of making you talk and [00:03:00] it's all about the history of the second world war and I did it really almost as a hobby. It was great fun. I launched it with a great historian called James Holland and a comedian called Al Murray, both of whom are real aficionados of the period. It quite quickly became a bit of a cult. No doubt lockdown during the COVID period helped in a way because it meant people were stuck at home seeking content. Podcasts are, producible remotely, we were able to really up the amount of content we produced. Suddenly it went from being very niche to some, to having quite a significant audience. And then the next iteration really was to say, we've got a successful podcaster that is, doing north of a million downloads a month, it's making some money and what would happen if we, did a podcast about more than just six years of history? In fact, let's do the whole of history. And that's how the rest is history was born and it broke out, became a super success and it really showed us that the format of intelligent people talking in an entertaining way about something they know a great deal about [00:04:00] really could work. Damian: That's pretty ambitious. I've got to say, the idea of doing the whole of history. And I've got to say, I am an avid listener to the rest is history. Absolutely fantastic show with the two co-hosts, Dominic Sandbrook and Tom Holland, who've got this got this brilliant rapport. Between them, I'm wondering if you could sort of like for people who haven't heard it just give a kind of distillation of the kind of tone and style of that podcast. Tony: Sure, it's a history podcast. It tells narrative stories, fabulous stories from history. Be that the story of Napoleon or the French revolution or the sinking of the Titanic, the rise of the Nazis. These are all subjects that have been covered extensively in the last 12 months, for example. But what it really does is it's two, people who know an awful lot about the subject, who research it really, really well, but then have a fantastic conversation. Fairly light conversation in a very entertaining, witty, well informed way. The best way I can [00:05:00] describe the tone of voice of The Rest is History is if you could imagine being sat in a bar or a cafe and hearing two people who know each other really well and are good mates chatting about something they're fascinated by in a very entertaining way. That's The Rest is History. Damian: And that formula also kind of carries over into the other podcasts, like for instance, the rest is football similarly, it's like, three guys having a kind of elevated, smart, funny conversation about what's just happened in the week, the week in, whether it be the Premier League or international football or what have you, is that fair? Tony: Yes, I think that is fair. I mean, we don't, create relationships on air with our podcasters. We basically, listen in on relationships that already exist. So Gary Lineker, Micah Richards and Alan Shearer, all great soccer players in their own right. But more important than that, their mates, and you get a real strong sense of that when you listen to them talking, they love their football, they watch it endlessly, they [00:06:00] have a WhatsApp group that frankly you could publish and probably get 100,000 subscribers to, it's so entertaining, it's all about what's going on in football constantly, and they basically bring that conversational style, that very matey friendly, but intelligent and analytical style to their conversations three times a week on a Monday, they look back over the weekend's action on a Wednesday. They try and answer as many of the audience's questions as they can. And on Friday they review the midweek and look forward to the weekend. So it's an ongoing conversation, between three guys who frankly. If we weren't recording it, would be having the same conversations anyway. Damian: I love that, insight. Damian: So I want to shift a little bit to ask you about the, business perspective. And what need, as it were, did you tap in the UK market? Which, obviously has a wide variety and diversity of broadcast options because the BBC is there. So, how did you get that market? Tony: Well, I think first of all, I would say that the BBC does a brilliant, brilliant [00:07:00] job. It's a wonderful broadcast that makes an incredible amount of diverse content, but it has to, it has to serve an awful lot of people so it can, find itself spread a little thin. One of the great attributes of podcasting as we discovered with our second world war history pod is that you can super serve a group of people who want something very specific. So the second world war pod is listened to by about 80 to 100,000 people. But it's listened to by them religiously twice a week and that means we get 1. 2 million downloads a month. That audience is not being served anywhere else. So that was our first insight. We then looked at kind of the broader history offering in traditional radio and it was all slightly stale. It had been the same for a long time when we wanted to have a slightly fresher, newer, more entertainment focused approach and, I'd like to tell you it was super planned, but in fact, it was about getting too [00:08:00] great talent to have good conversations. And, we spent nothing on marketing the entire growth of that podcast. The question I get asked most, which is really insightful in many ways, I think was it, why wasn't history taught like this at school? If it had been taught like this at school, I would never have dropped it as a subject. I've always loved history, but it was always done in such a dry way. Why couldn't it have been taught in this entertaining fashion at school? And I hope that's what we're actually providing for those for all those millions of people who love their history. We're giving them a new access point to it. Damian: Yeah, absolutely. I just listened to the five part series on Martin Luther and I remember going back to my history A level where I had, you know, hopefully she's not listening, but a pretty dull history teacher, but I learned everything about Martin Luther now, all these years later from that podcast. Absolutely brilliant with all its references. Tony: Absolutely, so there's one other thing I'm going to say to you which is, I think the commissioning model is slightly broken. I think the traditional model whereby somebody in their [00:09:00] broadcast ivory tower decides whether or not a pitch, a content pitch, will be the right thing for their audience. I think it just doesn't work anymore. There's, it's too, we've got to a point now where commissioners are trying to satisfy too many things at once. Whereas we can just say, this is what we want to do. We don't need a commissioner. We don't need, the finances of a traditional broadcaster. We'll self fund this. We believe in it. We can experiment. We can try stuff and it's been liberating for us creatively because we can, we can decide we want to do a podcast on Martin Luther which frankly nobody would ever commission and we can do it. And lo and behold it found a terrific audience, likewise we did, you know we did four parts on the falklands war. We did an extended season on custer. We did a long series on the nazis now the nazis will always get covered in traditional media. But, we were able to do, for example, this year, we took the guys to Sarajevo to talk about the start [00:10:00] of the first world war and the first shot that was fired, the assassination of our shoot, Franz ferdinand, you know, that's the kind of thing I just don't think traditional broadcasters are going to commission, but we're able to do it and find an audience with it. Damian: Yeah, I want to ask you a little bit about the revenue model from a business perspective. you know, um, a little bit, we, we keep hearing in the U S about the ad opportunity, especially in podcasts. I'm curious from your perspective, what's that opportunity like in the UK? Tony: Well, the ad part of it is challenging. The UK is not a very big market. It is nothing like the US market. For example, the advertising slash sponsorship market in the US around podcasting is something like $4 billion a year. In the UK it's more like a hundred million. Dollars a year. It's a pretty small pizza in terms of, that needs slicing up between, all the commercial players in the UK and frankly, if the BBC enter into this market as they're [00:11:00] threatening to do, it will be even more challenging for us. We've had to be pretty creative around the commercial side of it. So yes, we're absolutely fishing in the advertising and sponsorship pond, but we're also looking at subscription models. In fact, we've got six very successful subscription clubs for our podcasts. This is where audiences, super fans who really love the pod can get access early, can get it ad free, can get bonus content, can get live show tickets early, et cetera. And that's proved very successful. We also do live shows and the live shows, do very well. You know, the rest is history last night we did it live in Cambridge, in the university center, Cambridge in front of more than a thousand people. The rest is politics is going on a nationwide tour. We're doing seven cities. We've sold 30, 000 tickets across that tour. So yes, we've had to be quite. Smart, frankly, and see disparate potential, financial models for our podcasts so that they can really function. Damian: Yeah, it makes [00:12:00] sense. I know, people talk a lot about the kind of, the special relationship that, Podcast hosts have with their audience and sort of ipso facto that kind of translates a little bit into advertising and how advertising works, whether it be host read or ~whether it comes in, Tony: programmaticly Damian: programmatically. yeah. that's the word. I'm kind of curious to hear what response you've had from advertisers, in terms of what's your pitch to them? Tony: Yeah. I mean, our pitch to them is really relatively straightforward unlike nearly all other forms of media currently we're growing, the traditional TV and radio commercial radio models are shrinking. They're struggling. It's not easy for them. The streamers, Netflix and Apple And all the usual customers are now. Causing traditional TV to have to be very inventive and work with smaller budgets. We're the opposite. We know the, the podcast market is growing. every year. Our audience is very [00:13:00] young, so we skew much younger than all of the other mediums. So, 48 percent of our listeners are under 34. So half of our audience is effectively in their teens, twenties and early thirties, which is, attractive to commercial partners. And, we have very, very long listen times. People are fine, find the content compelling and engaging. So, the rest of history's average listen time is 41 minutes. Now, this is great news. I'm always very reassured by this because people have told me for a long time that young audiences want only bite sized content that they can swipe through and everything has to be a minute or less. What we might call the tick tock generation. Well, we're discovering that's not true People in their twenties and thirties want long form, intelligent, entertaining conversations. They want, they want to hear content that entertains them, that informs them, that educates them. I'm starting to sound positively BBC wreathian, but you know, they basically They basically do want [00:14:00] long form. People are commuting, they're exercising, they're walking dogs, they're cooking. They want to have something that entertains them, that, that informs them and a lot of people we know listen to our podcasts while they're doing something else. So I think the sell to commercial partners really is that, our listeners are super engaged. They're young, they're highly educated and by and large, we've done surveys, by the way, large scale surveys of over 20, 000 of our listeners, they earn really good salaries. They usually are executive and managerial levels in their businesses. These are the movers and shakers, the people who inform the way that, that our nations are moving. So there are really, really interesting and valuable audience. Damian: Yeah, it's, such a cliche now to say that young people have no attention. Clearly that's, that's not the case. Tony: It's, it's, it's absolute nonsense. It's not true. Damian: Yeah, it really is. And It's reassuring to hear that too. You know, in terms of the, you mentioned it's growing. How far can it grow? What's the sort of [00:15:00] scale you can, when you think about I think the statistic I read was that 20 percent of UK listeners listen to a podcast every week. That's a lot of headroom, right? You've got left. Tony: Oh, it's super exciting on that score. We are definitely nowhere near peak podcasting. I can tell you why, because nobody over about 55 is listening to podcasts because they, they never did. They didn't do growing up with it. The older generations, the people who are perhaps retired and who would enjoy our podcast most are just not listening. , They're perhaps didn't grow up with the technology. They're not quite as comfortable, opening an app and downloading audio content. I think that as people age with that native ability to use the technology and enjoy the content, there's a whole generation of people we will add between say 55 and 80, whatever, who will suddenly become listeners. There's probably 30 percent upside just when we start being listened to and enjoyed by an older generation, which is not happening at the moment. Damian: [00:16:00] That's a great point. Yeah, I think as people, get used to the tech, that's it. And then I don't, who knows what's coming up. You also have talked about, pushing podcasts into video as well. And I are talking right now on zoom, but people listening are just listening to this, with their air pods or what have you, what's the benefit in a way of, pushing podcasts, onto video, is it to see those hosts sparring with each other, people are curious. Tony: This is the area that intrigues us most about what we do. The advent of video really came from the US. We started to hear Prominent podcasters talk about watching podcasts rather than listening to podcasts. And we started to ask ourselves, why are they doing that? What is the gain? Surely it's not just for the programmatic ads on YouTube or Facebook. We were determined to trial it and see what the benefits were by practice, by actually trying it out. And what we discovered was, This was [00:17:00] an entirely different audience. So for example, during the euros, as I mentioned, 9. 7 million audio downloads and 10 million video downloads. They're not the same people with that. This was entirely additional audience. The other thing about it is, but there's a couple of things. One is that it helps with cross promotion. We can cut this content up, put a push it out on social, on Insta and Tik TOK and Twitter, et cetera. But also when it comes to having partnerships, you know, with some of the bigger brands, there's that, that hundred million dollar UK podcast market is suddenly much greater. If you're talking to brands about partnerships that include video and social, there's a whole extra set of people you're in conversation with. And so you can effectively turn a podcast back into a show, a 360 show, which. Frankly, we don't mind where people encounter. We don't mind whether you watch, you listen, you see the clips on your social media feeds. As long as you're encountering our [00:18:00] content, we're happy. And that's really why we've pushed so heavily into video. So we take the opposite position of the walled garden. We're not a walled garden. We're not going to tell you to come over to our place and enjoy our content. We're going to say, Where are you comfortable? Where do you want to be? Damian: Yeah, love that. Love that thought. Is podcast growth dependent to a certain extent on those different platforms and platform growth? You know, if people listen through Spotify or Apple, what have you? Tony: Well, I don't know whether it's dependent on that growth. It's an interesting question. What I can say is that we're agnostic. We don't mind where you are. We have a really good relationship with Spotify who are our, ad and sponsorship sales partner. But similarly, you know, we have a great relationship with Apple too, who handle a lot of our subscription clubs. And frankly, as I say, you know if you're there on YouTube or if you're there on Apple or Spotify, that's all fine. Yes, it does require people to be digitally native and comfortable with the digital platforms, but increasingly, as I say, apart from [00:19:00] perhaps my father's generation, who I still have to download podcasts for, you know apart from his generation, I think most people now are pretty comfortable with the media. Damian: So one of the great advantages of podcast production is that you, have a very close relationship with your audience. Could you give me some insight into how that breaks down in terms of subscribers and people who listen for free? What are you seeing? Tony: Sure. What we're seeing is that unlike the traditional, media relationship whereby a production company like us, we're Goalhanger. We would go in to see the commissioner at the BBC or channel four or ITV or NBC and we pitched them our idea and they would either say yes or no, usually no. But if they did commission it, we'd make it for them. We'd hopefully keep doing it. 10 percent production fee, they would then put it out. They would sell the ad slots to, commercial partners and ultimately the relationship between the production company and the final audience is really remote. So ours is [00:20:00] really close. When we put our pods out free to air, the audience listens to them. They contact us. We incorporate their questions. We have a very good relationship, very close relationship, but not nearly as close as we do with our subscribers. We've got about 90, 000 subscribers across our various podcasts. And what they get is a direct personal relationship with us. There's no, advertising. There's no sponsorship. They don't have to wait for a podcast. So for example, we'll, do a, six part series on the sinking of the Titanic. You can listen to that content spread out over three weeks for free with ads, Monday, Thursday, Monday, Thursday, Monday, Thursday, or if you're a subscriber on that first Monday, you can have all six episodes immediately as a box set. That kind of a relationship is, I think, unique to podcasting where you love the content. You decide that for the Cost of an oat milk latte. You can basically get all six episodes immediately. And many of our listeners now are just saying, you know what? I want my content clean. I'd like to just come to you direct. I'll have it [00:21:00] immediately. By the way, I'd love to get prioritized for the live tickets for the show in New York. I'd like to get them ahead of the rest of the public. And so you develop this fantastic relationship with your listeners and your fans. Damian: There seems to be a kind of recognition that staying authentic, is the way to scale. I was just, I was reading some comments by, Netflix boss Ted Sarandos at the RTS conference, Royal Television Society conference, who was saying, one of the big hits this year for them was Baby Reindeer, which is a very UK, British sensibility, but yet it's done really well. They didn't pander to a global audience. They kept it authentic. It seems like that is the same formula that's having success for you. Tony: Well, it's really interesting this, isn't it? Because, I've got three, I've got three, sons, two teenagers and a 20 year old, and they're watching tons of content on Netflix and, uh, and the variety of the streamers, and they're very happy watching, for example, Korean TV with subtitles. They'll watch dramas from Scandinavia with subtitles. They're very comfortable. [00:22:00] Watching authentic drama and cultural content from other nations. I don't know whether the kind of globalization of content has finally happened, the days when, if it didn't, when, if a movie didn't have a, an American star, it could never be watched around the world. I think it's gone. I think people are much more comfortable enjoying content from a variety of nations. Damian: Well, Tony, thank you so much for these insights. Great talking with you. Tony: An absolute pleasure. Thanks very much for having me on. Damian: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. We'll be back next week, so stay tuned. The current podcast theme is by Love Caliber. The current team includes Kat Vesey and Sydney Kearns. And remember, Tony: We're not a walled garden. We're not going to tell you to come over to our place and enjoy our content. We're going to say, Where are you comfortable? Where do you want to be. Damian: I'm Damian and we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also tune into our other podcast, The Current Report.…

The Current Podcast

1
Jaguar Land Rover's Charlotte Blank on why premium content builds brand loyalty 21:18

5 weeks geleden21:18

21:18

The U.S. CMO of the luxury car company discusses how integrating Jaguar Land Rover’s brand alongside popular shows like Succession and The Gentlemen has helped deliver its message of quiet luxury. Episode Transcript Please note, this transcript may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio. Ilyse: [00:00:00] I'm Ilyse Liffreing Damian: And I'm Damian Fowler and welcome to this edition of the Current Podcast. Damian: This week, we're delighted to talk with Charlotte Blank, U.S. Chief Marketing Officer of Jaguar Land Rover North America. Ilyse: Charlotte is responsible for JLR's House of brands, which includes the Land Rover Defender and Discovery, the Range Rover, as well as the new line of all electric Jaguar cars. Damian: Before she joined JLI, before she joined JLR, Charlotte gave a TED Talk in 2019 called Lead Like a Scientist, where she examined the psychology of motivation and what it means to lead. Ilyse: Charlotte says she's obsessed with testing new ideas and challenging the status quo. So that's where we started. Damian: So hi, Charlotte. Thank you for joining us. Charlotte: Thank you for having me. Damian: In 2019, you did a TED talk called lead like a scientist in which, you talked about the importance of testing new ideas and challenging the status quo. Now, is that something you put into practice in your current role as CMO at JLR Charlotte: I would like to think so and I think there's room to do even more. I describe myself as a marketer by way of psychology. I did that TED Talk in a previous role as Chief Behavioral Officer of an incentive and motivation company where I really got to be at the forefront of research in behavioral economics and studying what we know about human behavior and social science and how that plays into understanding and motivating people to take action, which essentially is at the core of marketing. So we have so much of an opportunity to act and lead like scientists when we wear our hat as a marketing leader. Damian: And what can other marketers do to sort of take some of those lessons that you were expressing in that talk? You know, and how can they integrate that into their daily work? Charlotte: I think to lead like a scientist, first and foremost, means to test things, to run experiments, and by that I mean true randomized controlled experiments, hold out test controls with properly randomized groups. And really from an applied standpoint, I think [00:02:00] marketers have been leading the way here. I mean, A B tests are standard practice. We see them as common practice in digital advertising and website optimization - really, it's kind of part of the daily work of being an excellent digital marketer in particular is to constantly be A B testing. But I think where there's more of an interesting opportunity to grow is more hypothesis driven testing. So not just the: “Will I see more clicks if I move this important box from the bottom of the page to the top?” But more: “I have this insight about something that really differentiates the consumers I'm trying to reach and how can I craft my messaging to get at that core psychological insight and testing those?” That I think is sort of the next step and where we can really make a difference. Damian: Could you give us an example of how you, you're putting that into practice at JLR? Charlotte: Absolutely. So we are on an exciting journey at JLR as part of our modern luxury transformation. We're really elevating the brands and taking everything up market and really responding to the rise in [00:03:00] wealth and the consumers that we reach from a modern luxury perspective. And part of the strategy to bring that to life is ‘House of Brands’. So JLR really no longer goes to market with the Land Rover brand as the front facing brand, but it fades back to allow Range Rover Defender and Discovery each to thrive in their own right. So this is an exciting opportunity for marketers to really tease apart the difference, for example, between a Range Rover customer and a Defender client. And that's really where the psychological insights come into play. So we've been doing some really interesting research that finds these ‘core differentiating nuggets’, we call them. Just off the top of my head, some interesting insights were: Range Rover Sport target is extremely psychologically rich. They thrive in busyness and sort of the chaos of daily life that many of us know. Some of us love, some of us don't love. The Range Rover sport person loves to be very busy and to have their hands in lots of different things and they're rather impulsive. They lack the ability to delay gratification, and they don't [00:04:00] like to be overly structured or routine. So they like to just kind of go for it and go for their dreams and not really overthink things because they can handle doing multiple things at once. So I think you'll see, for example, in the new Range Rover Sport Creative as part of our new Velocity Blue campaign starring Theo James. He kind of exhibits that in the commercial. You see him sort of exploring the property, racing the car around the grounds, and going for an action to what turns out to be simply playing fetch with his dog. But it's this kind of heroic, fast paced scene that really brings to life that sort of busyness and a bit of impulsivity. Ilyse: bit of impulse. Now, as far as that campaign and then like future campaigns, you've talked a lot about the importance of media mix modeling. I'm curious why this is important and would you say it's easier now to lead like a scientist in a marketing world that is more data driven? Charlotte: We're very excited to kick off our MMM (Media Mix Modelling) project. I think two weeks from today we're starting our [00:05:00] really what we're calling our marketing mix project because I think this is finally our chance to put all of the pieces really together in a rigorous scientific data driven way so that we can get a little more sophisticated about understanding and right sizing the expectations for what advertising investment can do in the short term when it comes to sales and that I'm kind of recognizing that in the automotive industry and probably in most others that it's not only about the advertising, but it's about the media strategy being carefully executed in concert with getting all the other pieces, right. Is the pricing right? Are the incentives right? What are the competitors doing? How old is the product? There are all of these factors that come into play, and we can put them all into the model to help us make better decisions about where to place a dollar at any given time for any particular model, and it may or may not be in more media. It might be for new creative, or it might be on adjusting the price. It might differ depending on the product, so I think that's going to make us, as a collective [00:06:00] enterprise, a lot more intelligent and data driven. Ilyse: intelligent. On that note, are there different markets for different vehicles across JLR brands? Damian: the Charlotte: Of course. I mean, that's really part of the fun of differentiating the four brands is they really are different core audiences. And again, this comes back for me to psychology, that when we look at the surface level at the demographics and we simply ask questions like: How old are these people? Are they married? What is their average household income? They look relatively similar to each other and to competitive brands, but we take another level down, we start peeling the onion and we look at: Well, how do they spend their time? And then we look even deeper: But what really drives them? What motivates them? What stage of life are they in psychologically? That's where they start to feel really different. So that can come to life in the ‘where’ and ‘how’ we approach our media buys and the partnerships we explore. But it also, again, you know, creative is king. It comes into the messaging and how we craft a story that resonates with people. Damian: I just gotta say on that [00:07:00] note, I did love the Theo James spot. The Range Rover spot because it was filmed at Harewood House, which is very close to where I grew up in Yorkshire. So I think I'm in the market for one of those and the same color, too. Charlotte: I was thrilled to hear that when you share that with me in your beautiful English accent, because it is, it's a really special location that was carefully chosen, partly to bring about that English heritage, you know, that's something that is such a special gift and a unique, ~um,~ distinctive asset for the Range Rover brand is ~that~ that English heritage going back to the queen and the royal family. And I think we've ~kind of~ gone through phases about how much in the degree that we play that up. But the time feels right culturally to really ~kind of ~celebrate that and bring forth a bit of cheeky modern Britishness. to the Range Rover sport brand and truly there's no better character for that than Theo James. You know what he brought to life in the Gentleman hit series on Netflix. ~Um,~ Range Rover was heavily integrated in that show. So we already benefited from the show's popularity and Theo's popularity and have a bit of [00:08:00] equity built with him. So I think it's just perfect that we got him to sort of star in the campaign Ilyse: to sort of star in the character. Not to Charlotte: quite handsome. That's true. Ilyse: And it is all about like marketing a lifestyle just as much as a vehicle. Charlotte: 100%. That's, that couldn't be more true, especially for a luxury brand. Ilyse: brand. And we Damian: we hear a lot, ~um,~ now of the importance of marketing being relevant to culture and that's a very good example of how you're tying in. You know relevance to cultural moments, ~you know,~ especially premium content like you mentioned white lotus the gentleman. ~It's ~It's sort of all aligned in lots of Charlotte: I am a huge fan of branded entertainment. Where people spend their leisure time, where their captive audience in front of a big screen in the comfort of their own home, and where they binge watch their favorite shows, Netflix, HBO. We've seen some incredible return on investment when we integrate our vehicles and our brand experience in a highly curated way, against some of these popular shows. Succession comes to mind. ~You know,~ Succession really brought in [00:09:00] this. notion of quiet wealth and like the uber luxury in a way that's a little bit more understated and reductive. The clothing they wear with the million dollar sweaters that just look really simple. There's something about ~that~ that really resonates with the Range Rover brand and the design aesthetic that's not overtly flashy or gaudy, ~um,~ but is a little more reductive and minimalist in design and it's just the characters and succession really brought that to life. Damian: and minimalist in design, and it's just the characters and succession really brought that to me. What insights have you got there around marketing to that group, that younger demographic, ~uh,~ especially given the fact that you're ~kind of ~leading with data? Charlotte: I think it's really important. ~I mean,~ we have to remind ourselves as as much as we do pay attention to performance marketing, and we've built a world class sophisticated martech stack and a [00:10:00] really strong team of digital marketers who are highly attuned to those kind of purchase intense signals and closing demand, ~you know,~ focusing on that lower part of the funnel. But at the end of the day, especially in automotive, especially these luxury brands, it takes time to really build that love in people's hearts. And it, for many people starts early. I mean, some of the most interesting research I've seen, it's as if people are lying on a psychiatrist's couch, going back to their literal childhood memories: What does Range Rover mean to me in my heart? They're thinking about,~ you know,~ their father driving one, or the royal family, some early memories they had of it, or a show that they've seen, ~you know,~ brand and entertainment really comes to mind.~ Um,~ Defenders, ~um, ~sort of rocketing onto the scene in the recent James Bond movie with this really spectacular car chase is an example that, you know, is meant to appeal not only to people who are in market now or can afford one now, but potentially to, to the younger generations who might, ~you~ You know, put the theoretical poster up on the wall and dream of it in the future. So I think that's really important for us marketers. Ilyse: And that really, ties into like. [00:11:00] Personalized journeys, especially if they look back at how they even came across the brand to begin with. When it comes to that as well, which channels are you testing as you like focus on like scale? Charlotte: We're always testing new channels for scale. You know, a lot of our focus around building the upper funnel and growing our brands tremendously. Defender. We doubled sales in the U. S. last year. From, around 15, 000 a year to over 30 and did that very quickly with just a really concerted focus on building awareness, breaking through with really effective creative that drove breakthrough recall and brought a lot of new audiences, into awareness of the brand. And I think, the way to do that is to get some of the brilliant basics right. Which means really good, creative, really strong media plans that index heavily on scale-based channels like CTV. We did a lot of TV, we've been in podcasting, audio. When we [00:12:00] think of the 'see, think, do’ framework, really focusing on the ‘see’ to build new audiences and build that upper funnel. Damian: That's an incredible statistic you just shared about doubling sales last year of Defender, and that's through brand, sort of brand building. Charlotte: Indeed, as well as physical experiential activations, as well is a big part of our marketing mix. We host every year the Destination Defender Festival, which grows each year. We have an incredible cause marketing platform for Defender called the Defender Service Awards, which gives us a platform to showcase the capability and off road and durability of the car in context of these really emotional lifestyle stories. So we invite very local grassroots charities who need a vehicle that can take them to difficult places. We invite them to submit video applications for a chance to win a Defender, and then we invite consumers to vote. Last year we had over half a million votes in a very grassroots approach, and this year we're looking [00:13:00] already to surpass that. And that just gives us a wealth of content and opportunity to make a difference, and to really establish a platform that's authentic and organic for the brand. So I think those sort of higher touch, authentic, steps are important as a foundation, but then also just to really blast out building awareness through big traditional media has helped as well. Damian: That seems like that, that's sped up, maybe, is it? All of you got sped up. Charlotte: I mean, we truly last year we called it the year of ~Defender, Defender,~ Defender. No joke. It was ~kind~ of all systems go on defender. We were, it was really motivating and really exciting because we had such a clear vision of what we needed to do to differentiate and really break defender onto the scene. So it was just a galvanizing kind of experience to just go all in on this one brand. This year we've got to be able to, walk and chew gum at the same time. We're back to focusing on multiples. Ilyse: at those like cultural and like sporting events and having a big presence at some of those. How much is that really part of your strategy and which, I guess, which cultural events have you really found yourself being? Charlotte: Yeah. That's a very topical question for us. Experiential marketing, I think, gives us a way to really bring the brand to life in a way that transcends the product and makes people feel like they're part of a community. So a great example is Range Rover house, ~um,~ for Range Rover, that's now a global lifestyle platform. We now do Range Rover houses everywhere from. Damian: started Ilyse: But Charlotte: to Dubai, Cormier, you name it, but it started here in the U. S. in Monterey around, ~um,~ Damian: around Monterey. Charlotte: Pebble Beach around Monterey car week. and we do it every year in that location at that event, as well as, Salt Lake City at, Park City, and a few other locations. And basically, the idea is that we'll take over a private residence or building that [00:15:00] matches the design aesthetic of Range Rover and curate these exquisite, really luxury crafted experiences for our clients and prospects and partners. And we do that in partnership with other luxury brands to offer. For example, ~uh,~ rare spirit tastings, or a luxury facial, ~um,~ early access to a new fashion launch. ~Um,~ so we'll curate something different each time to keep it fresh. But the idea, it's been fun for the team to use as almost~ a,~ a filter or a thought exercise of, if Range Rover the brand were a house, What would it smell like? What would the furniture look like? What would you eat there? Who would be there? you can kind of stretch your imagination to bring the brand to life in a way that, transcends the product. And we'll have a special product edition each time. That's also a part of the strategy where we'll release a limited count of a special Range Rover. That's only 17 of them are made. And it Retails for 350, 000 and only those [00:16:00] who are in person have a chance to, have the first look. So that gives it sort of a press hook, ~um,~ and an extra kind of commercial reason to attend. But really the experience we hear more and more from our clients is that I feel like I'm part of a club, an exclusive society. ~You know,~ I'm a Range Rover person and that means that I get to do this and I get to meet and mingle with other life's leaders. We call them in the Range Rover community. Damian: not every automaker can claim that they're able to kind of, like, create a club of like minded members. I know many would probably think that they can, but there's something special about JLR in that way. And I know we touched on this already, but one of those factors, I guess, that plays into the branding and the association is the British connection. You mentioned the ad, but could you say a little bit more about that and how that is Something that you use or not use, especially in the U. S. market, which is what you're in charge. Charlotte: [00:17:00] Yeah, such an interesting question for the U. S. market. ~Um,~ We have a couple of very current examples, I think, to this effect. One is that we have the blessing of having access to this curated collection of Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, her cars, basically the classic Land Rover product that she either drove or was escorted in, throughout her regime. And we have a beautiful collection of 10 of those vehicles that have been painted. painstakingly perfectly restored, and we debuted them globally at Pebble Beach this year. So it was the very first time that an SUV was displayed on the Pebble Beach Concourse, which I was surprised by. That was a really unique moment. That was a really special thing. So we got a lot of press and breakthrough for that moment. And a lot of just fan activity. There are a lot of classic Land Rover Range Rover fans. So now we're taking those vehicles on tour and we'll have them at Rockefeller center with a very British themed experience. It's all about the Royal family. So we'll have sort [00:18:00] of a tour. British, ~you know,~ other partners there and sort of a British feel. ~Um,~ but when you see the cars, ~you know,~ there's even these little touches like a special spot for the corgis to sit or the special hook for the Queen's handbag. ~Um,~ so that is a moment that's really making us stop and appreciate the British heritage and celebrate that in a more public way than we had recently. but a funny story we were just catching up about earlier when I spoke about the Theo James commercial. It's called Velocity Blue is the campaign. We made some edits for a U. S. version of the TV spot, which will start airing that essentially streamlined the story to be a little bit more simple, with a little more car shot, a little more action, which kind of captures a lot of, like, the U. S. feedback. When we have our creative debates and discussions internally, most of the creative origination happens at the global headquarters in the U. K., It rolls out to the major markets. We give our feedback. There's a process that's probably very similar at other global companies, and the script tends to go something like the English version is a bit [00:19:00] more abstract, has a little more storytelling, has a lot going on, and the U. S. wants to see Simple. Hit me with the logo. More car shots. Get to it. People are busy. There's a lot to break through and there's always a cheeky debate about that. But, this time, they actually created a slightly different version for the U. S. Same spot, really, but with a key difference that, that simplified it and removed a scene in the middle that had, you know, an equestrian riding across the property you described. And we just got the test results back and they were fascinating to see. We worked with Kantar to do sort of the initial assessment of how both the UK and the US audiences resonate with each of these two options. And we found that indeed we were correct about the US that the simplified spot without the equestrian, outperforms the original version for U.S. audiences, but fascinatingly, in the U. K., the reverse is true. So that gave us such an interesting, and frankly, a positive outcome that was, gets us [00:20:00] away from any kind of creative disagreements and is much more about honoring these market specific differences. And just isn't that interesting, that people have different expectations of advertising or different understanding of, the content of this particular spot. So it's just an important reminder to global brands to keep the core insight true, but to make those tweaks to really optimize for each market. Damian: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, great. I mean, keep the horse. I say keep the horse. Ilyse: I mean, I'm an American, right? And I think it's, I think the UK version is better, Charlotte: Ifyou know just keep it simple. Yeah, but it's so interesting, those insights like that fascinating. Charlotte: live for them. I mean, I think that's what marketing is all about is the consumer insight. Damian: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. We'll be back next week, so stay tuned. Ilyse: The Current Podcast's theme is by Love Caliber. The current team includes Kat Vesce and Sydney Cairns. Damian: And remember, Charlotte: especially in automotive, especially these luxury brands, it takes time to really ~ build that love in people's [00:21:00] hearts. And it, for many people starts early. Damian: I'm Damian. Ilyse: I'm Ilyse Damian: And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.…

The Current Podcast

1
Gopuff’s Daniel Folkman on delivering the retail media goods 20:31

6 weeks geleden20:31

20:31

Gopuff’s Daniel Folkman joins The Current Podcast to explore the company's philosophy, what differentiates Gopuff’s retail media network and how the platform’s unique proposition could help it capture incremental retail media dollars.

The Current Podcast

1
Campari’s Julka Villa on building brand affection in person and the power of the moment 19:12

7 weeks geleden19:12

19:12

The beverage brand’s former CMO, which holds drinks like Aperol, breaks down why events like Coachella, the US Open and Cannes Film Festival are so important to its marketing strategy. Episode Transcript Please note, this transcript may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio. [00:00:00] Damian: I'm Damian Fowler [00:00:01] Ilyse: And I'm Ilyse Liffreing [00:00:02] Damian: And welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. [00:00:05] Ilyse: This week, we're delighted to talk with Julka Villa, the former Global CMO of Campari Group. [00:00:11] Damian: Founded in 1860, Campari is a household name in the global spirits industry with a portfolio of over 50 brands across world markets. [00:00:20] We're talking familiar names like Aperol, Sky Vodka, Wild Turkey Bourbon, and Courvoisier. [00:00:27] Ilyse: Julka is a marketing veteran with over 25 years of experience in the alcoholic beverage and beauty industries. A specialist in consumer focused brands. [00:00:37] Damian: Julka is responsible for the marketing vision, strategy, and execution of the Campari Group's brands. [00:00:44] At the same time, she has a bird's eye view of the company's worldwide presence, coordinating teams based in Milan, Paris, and New York. [00:00:52] Ilyse: We started by asking her about how she balances the Campari legacy with keeping its brands relevant for today's [00:01:00] consumers. [00:01:02] Damian: So Campari has a rich heritage. The company is now 164 years old. How do you go about balancing its legacy, the preservation of its legacy while keeping the brand modern and relevant for today's consumers? [00:01:18] Julka: I think that, if we go back to the roots of the Campari brand, about being [00:01:23] bold, about being visionary about investing in arts, think about Europe, Italy in the second half of the 19th century. There were so, few brands really investing Campari was one of the first really interacting with artists [00:01:42] and designers and giving them the freedom to, the brand in the way they saw it. if you look at how we started, you how we moved forward along our, our history. You can see that, the [00:02:00] twenties and thirties of last we start cooperating with cinema, really asking the people, working in the industries and producing the movies, postcards, producing, you know, designs and drawings for us. [00:02:16] You can see that, fast forward, to the eighties. We start cooperating with one of the greatest filmmakers. In the world, Federico Fellini, that was a big fan of the Campari brand. He was drinking Campari and he decided to cooperate with us to produce an advertising for the brand. And Fellini was the first filmmaker we cooperated with. But then, we kept this partnership, for instance, with Paolo Sorrentino 2017. And I was personally You know, working with him, it was a fantastic experience to see an artist really bringing to life, the brand, [00:03:00] respecting the legacy, but at the same time, renovating, since you're asking me how a brand modern still loyal to its root, it was amazing to see how we could kept the daring, attitude of the brand alive. According to his own style. [00:03:20] Ilyse: Wow,that is super cool. so is pop culture still as important to the brand even today? [00:03:27] Julka: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, and this is so important for the Campari brand, but for many other brands part of our portfolio, just for you to know, we have more than 50 brands. in our portfolio, and if you’d like we can talk about some of them, but when it, comes to Campari, think about the fact that our partnership with arts, have been, more recently renovated in our, cooperation with the major film festivals, in the world. We, are [00:04:00] partners of the Cannes Film the Locarno, in Berlinale. weclosed the first, year of partnership with the Toronto Film that's definitely a modern way to the brand, extremely aspirational, but still to get in touch with so many consumers and possible advocates of the brand. One of the things we really care about is not just to communicate our brands, but to assure our consumer to consume our brands throughout the signature cocktails in the best way possible and definitely feel festival for us are a huge opportunity to provide liquid tulips, as we say, to our consumers current and future. [00:04:47] Damian: What's interesting is with these different brands, you're sort of talking about how they're valued differently in different markets. that's very interesting to me. How do you know and prioritize [00:05:00] which brands work best in which countries? [00:05:04] Julka: We have, well identified, what we call the global brands. The brands that should be built everywhere in the world. Of course step by step and respecting the life stages, the brand is in a specific geography. And definitely the one I mentioned so far, are global brands. And so also global priorities, for the company. And then, depending on the area of the world, the characteristics of the market and the consumers, each individual, operating company, can, compose, portfolio, to have the best performance on the market. But definitely there are priorities everybody to focus [00:05:51] Damian: if you think about the United States, is there a sort of priority? [00:05:55] Julka: Yeah, [00:05:56] Damian: Leading brand here. [00:05:58] Julka: definitely, [00:06:00] uh, the priority for the United our giant aperitif brands, such as Campari Aperol, Grand Manier, Wild Turkey, Espolon, and of course, the local team is really excited to rebuild the Courvoisier brand. always acquisition we have just finalized. [00:06:21] Damian: Yeah, each of those brands has its own kind of, whole kind of narrative around them, I imagine. But I wanted to ask you actually a little bit about, The current moment that we're in, which we're seeing a kind of a lot of debate around alcohol versus no alcohol consumption, particularly when it comes to like Gen Z demographics. I mean, how do you think about and navigate these perception shifts? [00:06:47] Julka: That's a very that's a very interesting question. And of course, as you can imagine, we have been spending a lot of time and resources really to dig deep into these shift and [00:07:00] transformation in a way of our consumer ships. One thing that is not that evident to, to everybody is that differently from the past, there is a sort of coexistence of, people drinking alcoholic products and non alcoholic products, depending on the moment they are in, the people they are with, what they have to do the day after. [00:07:23] And this kind of consciousness and, control on what to choose is even stronger in younger consumers as you were mentioned so they are more conscious they don't they are not you know afraid to make a choice that could be out of [00:07:43] their are pool of friends. Everybody's drinking something alcoholic There's no problem at all for one of them to say “Look tomorrow I have to wake up very early I have a very important day I prefer to, to opt for a choice, a non alcoholic choice.” So more than a counter position [00:08:00] today, we see the coexistence, of these kind of choices, which is quite interesting, honestly, also because it gives us the opportunity to be more, mindful and, intentional in developing also the part of our portfolio, which is non alcoholic. For instance, we have a product which is an extremely strong product in Italy and definitely in a phase of conquering of continental Europe is, the name of the product is Crodino and is definitely our non alcoholic, kind of spritz. is a product that was invented and launched in the market, in 1965. [00:08:39] So this is a little bit a testament, to the personality of the company, wanting really to push boundaries. And actually we are preparing the launch of these fantastic product also in the U S, that we plan for next year. [00:08:54] Ilyse: So it sounds like Campari really anticipated this trend of non alcoholic [00:09:00] beverages in a sense. [00:09:02] Julka: Yeah, that's, that's correct. That's correct. [00:09:05] Damian: I'm just curious on that point, you know, as a marketer, you must get lots of data back in terms of like, who's drinking what, maybe by generation, maybe by geography even. I'm interested to know, do you kind of look at that in terms of strategizing and find the discrete markets? [00:09:24] Julka: even if, with the passing of the years, what we, really is of people. So demographics are not, gender or age brackets are not the main elements we look for because what really counts. Today is the mindset and the attitude of people, for instance, if I think about a product like Aperol with these with its signature cocktail, Aperol can see across generations drinking this product and across age brackets is the mindset. [00:09:57] And you would be amazed how people approaching Aperol [00:10:00] Spritz, enjoying Aperol Spritz, they really have in common, the way they appreciate life and what they are looking for in that specific moment. Either they are, 25 or 60. So there are also, a number of cross generational, alcoholic beverage experiences, and so the way we look at data is really about the motivation and the attitude of people when they are about to make a choice. [00:10:27] Ilyse: Yeah, that kind of, shift towards mindset over demographics probably helps a lot when it comes to just I guess prioritizing channels for the brand and where to reach those audiences because I know in a lot of the times like Millennials and Gen Zers are in like social media and usually that's not an option when it comes to alcohol brands, is, so is the brand finding other channels to be just as effective, in reaching that kind of mindset that it's [00:11:00] after. [00:11:00] Julka: when, I think a strong, distinctive characteristic Of our marketing and activation strategies, really investing very seriously in, in events, because definitely there's a lot of will among consumers of all ages, really to leave, events, in person really experience, on their, skin, much more than in the past. [00:11:24] and then we amplify, if you want, through social media, those events. But, a big part of our investment. is really, put on organizing, these kind of events. When we, when it comes to the U. S., think about Coachella, which is, more than a music festival, is a lifestyle festival, as we all know. [00:11:43] Think about the U. S. Open. uh, but also if we go on the other side of the world, in the APAC region, think about, The Australian Open, which is for us a, opportunity to reach so many consumers. about [00:12:00] hundreds of thousands live offering our best signature cocktail in our, fantastic lounger and then we can definitely amplify this content on a number of social media where. alcoholic beverage can, have a direct relationship, with their consumers. So for us, it's always a mix. we really believe that we have winning products, very straightforward drinking strategy, and that's why we care so these to life in real life for we don't see this business as happening just, just virtually. Definitely. [00:12:42] How do you kind of maintain and sort of keep tabs, as it were, on people who are loyal to the brands that you market? [00:12:52] definitely over the yearsWe invested and we improved, our, CRM, capacity, so [00:13:00] throughout, social media and massively through events, we gather as much as possible information about our consumers so that, we can definitely keep them, up to date. On our, yearly, program, but also we can establish a more direct dialogue. [00:13:18] Sometimes we consult them, a part of them for new projects. we listen to them, ask them questions about, trends, want to know more and I think that, especially when it comes to a lab important. [00:13:39] Feel part of a feel, really listen to is something as important as enjoying your favorite, brand and your [00:13:50] Damian: And what's interesting to me is I was thinking about this because about, maybe 12 years ago, I have a friend from Venice who lives in New York and we went to a [00:14:00] restaurant and she ordered an Aperol and at that, point it wasn't very, nobody really knew much about it here. [00:14:06] And since then, of course, it's huge. It's like a probably one of the most popular, cocktails around. I was just at the U. S. Open in the summer and I could see, your your [00:14:16] plaza there with Aperol everywhere. I guess it was, there's a sponsor, a partnership [00:14:20] Julka: Mm hmm. [00:14:21] Damian: But my question is, how did you could you walk us through how you, built that awareness from, that moment, however many years ago when it wasn't such a big, obviously big in Venice, she said it was the Venetian drink. [00:14:34] So I was like, Oh, that's interesting. [00:14:39] Julka: yes, I am. 10, 12 years ago, not only in the U. S., but in many other places outside Europe, definitely it was not established. you know, staple it is to die. and at the very beginning, we really faced, some very basic, difficulties. I have to say, it was not easy, to start [00:15:00] talking about, a signature cocktail that, needed, a bottle of Prosecco to be open, to be prepared because. [00:15:07] You know, if you are familiar with sparkly wines, the problem with it is that if you open it and you use just a little part and then you keep the bottle for a couple of days, the carbonation will just, yes, go away. So it was really. a very precise, consistent, and stubborn work of education. [00:15:28] There's just one certainty about education, which is that, you know, when you started that you will never know when you will finish. And actually it's a never ending story in a way. So we, in the past we put, and we keep putting a lot of, effort and an investment in educating the trade the bartenders bar owners But also the final consumers because at the end if the final consumer knows [00:15:52] the best way to prepare an upper spritz They will be your advocate and it happened to me so many times in the past [00:16:00] when I was receiving at the table in upper spritz that was not preparing the way It should have been, I was going back to the bar and I was saying there's something wrong with my cocktail. [00:16:13] it's a double, a double direction [00:16:16] Julka: Yeah, [00:16:18] efforts. And, Also, a very important part is, what we call, the oil spill approach. What does it mean? We start with the city, a major city, we start with the specific neighbors. and key on trade outlets in this neighbor. [00:16:39] We build a relationship of partnership. We invest on these venues and we create the phenomenon of the cocktail and then we expand. So distribution and presence comes just [00:16:52] after having started trend with a very high level, of the serve in a smaller [00:17:00] number of venues. [00:17:01] This, has been the approach in the U. S. and in every other part of the world. You mentioned Venice, which is the place where the brand really, started being known and appreciated and, recognized as, the champion of aperitif. But the phenomenon of Aperol Spritz started in Venice, expanded to the Veneto region, which is the region of Venice, and then expanded Milan and from Milan to the rest of Italy. [00:17:28] So the oil spill approach, as we call it, has always been, front and center of the strategy, of, And it's building. [00:17:38] Ilyse: So interesting. when you think of Campari brands, it also sorts of implies Like a level of sophistication. in a sense, are marketing just drinks or is it something more, I don't know, like lifestyle? [00:17:53] Julka: definitely. I think that,our brands are starting from, The most important ones really [00:18:00] stand for a certain lifestyle. you think about campari, it really represents the Milan. And, the lifestyle of the city. If you, think about aperol, you're talking about a more democratic sort of brand, really more casual. welcome. and, So they, [00:18:21] reflect a way of living and today even more important. If you think about the trend of escapism, traveling without traveling. I need a break. I need a moment for myself of real enjoyment with my friends. [00:18:36] brands like this, and they are signature cocktail, let's say Aperol Spritz for Aperol, Negroni, for instance, for Campari makes you really full for half hour, one hour you're spending with your friends in another place. So they really stand for a way of living for a place and for a moment in life where you really, recharge your batteries and, [00:19:00] you dedicate really a true moment to yourself. [00:19:03] Julka: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. [00:19:05] Damian: We'll be back next week, so stay tuned. [00:19:08] Ilyse: The Current Podcast's theme is by Love Caliber. The current team includes Kat Vesce and Sydney Cairns. [00:19:15] Damian: Cairns. And remember, [00:19:16] Julka: we really believe that we have winning products, and that's why we care so these to life we don't see this business as happening just virtually. [00:19:29] Damian: I'm Damian. [00:19:30] Ilyse: I'm Ilyse. [00:19:30] Damian: And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.…

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Samsung’s Olga Suvorova on how marketers can quickly tap into cultural trends 18:14

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Samsung’s Olga Suvorova sat down with The Current Podcast to discuss engaging with Gen Z audiences, balancing omnichannel strategies and tapping into cultural trends. Episode Transcript Please note, this transcript may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio. [00:00:12] Damian: This week we're delighted to talk with Olga Suvarova, the VP of Mobile Experience Marketing at Samsung. [00:00:18] Olga has recently overseen the launch of new Galaxy foldable phones and family of new wearables powered by Galaxy AI, a watch, buds, and a new smart Galaxy Ring. [00:00:35] On a recent LinkedIn post, Olga wrote, “We are reimagining how we create, interact, work out, communicate, stay healthy, multitask, travel, capture ordinary and extraordinary with Galaxy AI.” [00:00:47] That, sort of, almost sums up the human experience. [00:00:51] Ilyse: So much of phone tech is tied up with culture, and that's where we start. [00:00:55] Damian: So Olga, we know culture plays a large role in smartphone sales. Do you think this is even more true today? [00:01:04] Absolutely. Phones, smartphones, wearables, tablets are such an important part of people's lives. More so than it has ever been. So we're thinking about not just driving sales and connecting to culture, but understanding what are the cultural spaces, what are the nuggets of interest that are resonating with our consumers and how can we build experiences specifically for that? [00:01:33] Whether it's the new ways to create things thanks to Galaxy Eye, whether it's the new ways to track your health and sleep and overall wellness, or a completely reimagined experience of productivity and work. [00:01:50] Damian: And as you said in that LinkedIn post, the phone is connected to all these different aspects of our lives. That's kind of mind blowing when you think about it. [00:01:58] So, you know, you, talk about [00:02:00] culture and it's very interesting to me that culture and pop culture in particular is so connected to the idea of smartphone sales. [00:02:09] I mean, it's a fashion item as much as a, you know, a utility item. How do you tap into sort of current trends and fashions? And how do you tie that to marketing the phones and the wearables, indeed? [00:02:24] Absolutely, and because smartphones are at the center of what we do every single day, whether it's more of a utility or truly fun and delightful experiences, we have always been big on driving partnerships and collaboration with like minded change makers and incredible players within different cultural spaces. [00:02:46] And fashion is one of the greatest examples because when we think about technology and fashion. At the core of both is this relentless drive of inspiration and creativity and [00:03:00] self expression. So just recently, we've built an entire partnership around New York Fashion Week, partnering with an incredible designer, LeQuan Smith, and working with him to put the smartphone and the smart ring, so foldable phone, fold six, and the galaxy ring at the core of his creative experiences. [00:03:25] And redesigning and reimagining what it could be and launching an entire new collection that we called Lucid Dreams by LeQuan Smith. But what was very exciting about it is not only finding a way to build something incredible together, like this new collection, but also watching and getting inspired by LeQuan using our incredible Samsung Galaxy technology, including Galaxy I throughout the process. So for example, Live Translate and Kohl's being automatically translated in over 15 languages [00:04:00] that he used to drive a lot of conversations with partners and vendors around the world. [00:04:06] Ilyse: Now I want to get into how you think about your audiences. As you said, everybody uses a smartphone these days. Obviously there's a lot of focus on reaching Gen Z audiences who are, to put it, lightly less than brand loyal sometimes. How do you appeal to these potential customers through your exploration of culture? [00:04:27] Olga: It's definitely not a one size fits all approach. And the ways they behave and where they spend their time could be different than other audiences. And we think about all those elements as we design different experiences. [00:04:51] We're not just trying to target them with the same ads, no matter how amazing they are, as we would do with like the other [00:05:00] demographics. and that's why, when it comes to Gen Z and engaging them, deploying other strategies comes into play. for example, We've built an entire ecosystem of team Galaxy creators that are fantastic at building relationships versus trying to transact with that audience, and they are the champions of our brand, but they also the incredible connector to what those audiences care about and help us build that meaningful conversation with them. [00:05:30] Ilyse: What about outside of, say, social media? Because we're really living in like an omnichannel world now. How do you layer in different channels when it comes to your strategy, and how do you balance brand awareness and then performance? [00:05:45] Olga: I know there is a lot being talked about brand awareness versus performance, but I really like to think about it as not one versus the other. Brand drive performance. And it's about building that puzzle [00:06:00] together and finding how different pieces come into play. And for us, it's really building this omni channel approach, and it's not just the social media. [00:06:09] It's building that reach ecosystem off experiential activations, partnerships, tapping into influencers, thinking about how can we create media worthy moments. So for example, Team Galaxy Creator Collective is one of the ways we drive that relationship and engagement. Building a lot of conversation and community engagement in our social channels plays a huge role. [00:06:35] Experiential and partner activations, whether it's New York Fashion Week or our partnership with Red Bull, and reimagining how we show up at incredible first female competitions like Magnitude or a cliff diving or something else incredible. [00:06:52] Damian: mean, one of the challenges of your job is to stay on top of the fast moving, nature of culture. You have to be responsive. And I [00:07:00] think one of the most brilliant illustrations of that was earlier this year when, there was a certain ad that was that rolled out called, crushed where creative tools were being smashed into a tablet. [00:07:10] And Samsung had a quick responds with an ad called Uncrushed. Could you talk a little bit about that, that moment and what happened there and how you responded and generally about how you need to be sort of quick on your feet when it comes to being a marketer [00:07:25] Olga: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it comes down to a combination of being very clear about what you stand for as a brand and what your reason for being is, and being quick and nimble and constantly evolving to be at the center of that conversation. [00:07:43] And for us, when that, um, competitive ad came out, that was pretty much against everything we stand for. Which is open innovation and forcing and fueling the creativity and self expression on people's terms. And that's why for us it [00:08:00] wasn't just a rebuttal, but it was a very thoughtful It was a very, very quick response to, even though very, very quick articulation and expression of what we hold near and dear to our heart and championing that incredible community of creative people, and that's why we call that response and crash. [00:08:15] It wasn't a campaign plan for months. it was a very quick response. it went on social because it was so true and authentic and because it was executed in a very quick manner, we were able to garner. A lot of response and a lot of coverage without actually spending any money on it. [00:08:34] Damian: That's amazing. Do you think sometimes those quick response, campaigns, if you like, or ads, in some ways, are kind of more unexpected ads, are more, what's the word? effective in some ways than ones that may have taken a long time to plan. [00:08:48] Olga: It's probably a combination of both because I don't want to say don't plan, go with the flow and try to do everything within 48 hours. I wouldn't recommend that. But as you said, [00:09:00] The brand's ability to stay current and to stay top of mind for consumers is being constantly in tune with what consumers are doing and what they care about and what's happening in the competitive environments and what is top of mind for people. [00:09:17] So it's probably a combination of both and that what defines the brands that are able to champion what they stand for in a way that never loses authenticity and relevance. [00:09:28] Ilyse: Originally I saw a lot of backlash when it first out. Did you look at that backlash at all? Or was it something that you weren't even paying attention to and you just wanted to jump on it regardless? [00:09:40] Olga: wanted to be very much focused not only on what we're against, but what we're for. And that's what drove that response. We are about creativity, we are about open innovation, we are about celebrating the expression, and we're about pushing boundaries [00:10:00] rather than crushing everything underneath that. So that was probably as important, if not more important than trying to think what people are pulling apart around that original ad. [00:10:11] Ilyse: in a world where there's two operating systems, okay, you have iOS and Android. How do you view the competition in the space? Is it one system versus another? Or is it all about the product? [00:10:25] Olga: Well, at the core of the Samsung mobile brand has been this idea and ethos of openness and open innovation and collaboration and building the products and experiences and the ecosystem of products that pushes away the boundaries that might be forced on those products and ultimately deliver subpar experience. [00:10:47] So for us, it's relentless focus on delivering that. Open innovation, and that comes through how we build products, how we design those experiences, how we partner with like minded change makers in the [00:11:00] industry to really reimagine what those experiences are. Products could be whether it's partnering with Google to build circle to search, incredible functionality or Qualcomm or Microsoft for us. [00:11:12] The fewer barriers there are in the world, the further we can all go. The more we can drive towards that truly accessible, equitable, representative world and human innovation. So I would say I like to think about it not as a competition per se, but, What is our enemy? And oftentimes the enemy is the barriers and complacency and the inertia that exists within the industry or within the consumer behavior. [00:11:43] And how do we build not only the product experiences, but also incredible marketing messages and campaigns to really shake that up and drive towards progress. [00:11:56] Ilyse: Now when you're marketing, and especially when it comes to like [00:12:00] new products and new pieces of technology, what would you say is a sell for a new piece of tech? So is it the technology itself or is it looking at the tech and how it can enhance creativity for that user? [00:12:14] Olga: One hundred percent the latter one. It's all about it's never about technology and the conversation. We started with is smartphones and tablets and the mobile experiences being at the core of what we do every single day. So our focus, even with the latest launch earlier this year of Galaxy AI, has been how do we showcase what it could do for people, whether it's sketching AI photo editing, whether it's communicating across boundaries, because you have this wonderful life translated. [00:12:48] you know, reimagining your capability or reimagining how your earbuds connect to your phone and your tablet in a very, very seamless way. So it's all about what you can [00:13:00] do with it, whether it is something to help you save time or it's truly for fun. [00:13:05] Damian: fun. Now that brings us to the question of A. I. And the integration of A. I. Into new phones. And that for sure is a hot topic right now. And it's not just phones, of course. Could we talk a little bit about, you know, your thoughts on A. [00:13:19] I. On and the marketing of the products that you there on your watch? A. [00:13:26] Olga: and Galaxy Eye that we introduced in January and since then rolled out across the portfolio of our mobile products is not just a fancy and flashy new feature. It's truly at the core of where technology is going and how we can make it more accessible. More exciting, more delightful, more useful to our consumers. [00:13:48] And we see that in how they have been using that technology. Right now there are over a hundred million devices. All around the world that have been using [00:14:00] Galaxy AI. We know that just in the US alone, within a week, there are [00:14:05] Damian: are 78 [00:14:06] Olga: 78 million of instances when people are using those Galaxy AI features. And that's an incredible consumer response that tells us we're in the right track and we're building something that people love, that people find value in, and that helps us get more ideas for how we can innovate further. [00:14:24] Ilyse: You know, on that note, you are a big proponent of brand love and, and really diving into what I guess makes consumers keep coming back to a brand. Why would you say it's important to generate that kind of buzz around a brand? [00:14:45] Olga: It's really important to keep being relevance and being meaningful to consumers. It's important for people to feel something about your brand and in order to build and nurture that brand [00:15:00] love. We need to be very, very clear about what is that reason for being? What do we want to be remembered for, known for? [00:15:09] How do we want to make people feel? And on the other hand, continue to constantly evolve based on what people are telling us. Being open to it, having the desire, having the drive to really, keep reinventing ourselves without ever losing that core and that ethos of our brand. And for us, it's always been that idea of openness and open innovation and relentless pursuit of breaking barriers and pushing boundaries. [00:15:40] Ilyse: So, Olga, how do you layer in different channels when it comes to your overall strategy? [00:15:46] Olga: It's a combination of different channels that help us in a very personalized way reach Diverse communities and audiences from the demographic from the psychographic perspective, so we think about our [00:16:00] universe, including online video advertising, because that creates the opportunity to be extremely targeted and very measurable. [00:16:10] We also deploy, um, a lot of our advertising through programmatic ads by similarity. It allows a lot of precision and a lot of scale, but we also layer in different approaches to social media platforms. So, for example, how we build for platforms with matter is different for, uh, What we do with snap and spotify and twitch, which again allows us to show up in a consistent way, but in a more relevant and tailored approach, obviously, that all is connected to the work that we do through our partnerships, through our influencer work and a lot of our experiential and out of home media. [00:16:51] Damian: I have to ask you though we mentioned at the top the Galaxy AI ring, you’re wearing it. Can you tell us a little about it? [00:16:59] Olga: a [00:17:00] huge fan. I can't get enough of it. It's an incredible piece of technology. Again, it's powered by Galaxy AI, and it's an incredible device that allows you to track your sleep patterns, your health, your energy score. [00:17:16] So it tells you basically how you are doing, what you could be doing differently to feel better, gives you What we call wellness tips, and it's perfectly connected to your other devices, whether it's watch or the Samsung Galaxy phone, so you can actually get obsessed about those metrics. I have to say, I haven't been the healthiest person, according to this ring, but I have tons of wellness tips to get me to a better place. [00:17:40] Damian: That's great to hear. Well, thank you so much for speaking with us. [00:17:46] Damian: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. [00:17:48] We'll be back next week, so stay tuned. [00:17:51] Ilyse: The Current Podcast's theme is by Love Caliber. The Current team includes Kat Vesce and Sydney Cairns. And remember, [00:17:59] Olga: We are [00:18:00] about creativity, we are about open innovation, we are about celebrating the expression, and we're about pushing boundaries rather than crushing everything underneath that. [00:18:11] Damian: I'm Damian. [00:18:12] Ilyse: I'm Ilyse. [00:18:13] Damian: And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.…

The Current Podcast

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Jeff Green on how The Trade Desk’s new OS can improve the CTV ecosystem 36:45

15 weeks geleden36:45

36:45

The founder and CEO of The Trade Desk, Jeff Green, talks about the evolution of the premium internet, his obsession with the ad tech supply chain and why the connected TV (CTV) ecosystem is ready for an upgrade. Green explains why The Trade Desk is launching Ventura, a streaming TV operating system, named after the California beach town, to improve the CTV ecosystem for publishers, advertisers and consumers. __________ The Current is owned and operated by The Trade Desk Inc.…

The Current Podcast

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DoorDash’s Toby Espinosa on helping local economies grow 19:48

17 weeks geleden19:48

19:48

Toby Espinosa, the VP of DoorDash ads, reflects on the tremendous growth of the delivery platform, saying the key to this is local businesses. Episode Transcript Please note, this transcript may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio. Damian: [00:00:00] I'm Damian Fowler. Ilyse: And I'm Ilyse Liffreing Damian: And welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. Ilyse: This week, we're delighted to talk with Toby Espinoza, the VP of DoorDash Ads. Damian: And Toby is responsible for connecting brands, local and national, to the more than 37 million customers who place orders on DoorDash marketplaces each month. Ilyse: At this point, DoorDash is a household name, no pun intended. It has more than 7 million couriers delivering orders for DoorDash from around 550, 000 merchants. Damian: Hard to believe that the company was founded just over 10 years ago in 2013. And Toby joined the company in 2015. So he's seen DoorDash go from strength to strength. Naturally, we start by asking him about how the company has changed over the last decade. Ilyse: So Toby, DoorDash celebrated its 10th anniversary last year. And I, I remember when you guys launched, I would just say, because I was like a hungry college student at the time. And it was like, perfect timing to get [00:01:00] anything delivered to my dorm Toby: And where were you? Ilyse: In San Francisco. Toby: Francisco? No way. Oh, awesome. Ilyse: was like, yeah, it was like I was in the right place at the right time for sure. Yes. And, so how would you say has the company evolved from a food delivery platform to the platform it is today? Toby: When I joined the company, we were in 4, 5 metros. And we were completely focused on one product in four or five markets. And back in 2015 when I joined the food delivery market, as you remember, seamless reigned supreme in New York. Grubhub was in Chicago and everywhere else food delivery was pizza: Domino's, Papa John's, Pizza Hut. And a few local restaurants that were able to afford having couriers. The market, everybody thought, was saturated. We entered, the company had a thesis that the market itself, given the advent of mobile technology, we believed that [00:03:00] if you took this device, this mobile device, where now a dasher had a mobile phone, a consumer had a mobile phone, and actually restaurants had access to this mobile superhighway, that if we connected all of them, there would be a larger opportunity for growth. Growth being the key word there, because as much as DoorDash has changed over the last 10 years, we have gone from a one product, one market business to a multiple product, multiple geography business, with 37 million monthly active users, over 15 million monthly active subscribers to our platform. If you go back to our founding story, Tony, Stanley and Andy, when they started DoorDash, walked down University Avenue in Palo Alto and they went from store to store asking every local business, how can I help you grow? That was the founding question. It wasn't can I build a logistics network, it wasn't, can I build an ad business? It was, “Hey, how can I help you grow?” And the opportunity they found was let's do a restaurant oriented delivery network for everybody across suburban markets. And that's what took off. Ilyse: How would you say that growth has like translated on the ads marketplace side of things? Toby: Yeah. The hard part about building something at the scale that DoorDash [00:05:00] operates is the consumer side. Building a consumer promise and then making that promise better and better and better every day, getting faster and cheaper, that is actually the harder part to find. Product market fit from a consumer perspective. Once we have that, and once we have that, we want to continue to compound that over and over and over again About four, four years ago, five years ago, our merchants and so stores within our ecosystem raised their hand and started to ask us, “Hey, do you have any tools to help me grow even faster?” That's how the ad business started. It was a it's very fundamental. It's a core to who we are. It's a growth business. We have customers who want to grow [00:06:00] faster. And what we then tried to figure out was how can we help serve this promise for these customers while also helping our marketplace continue to grow? So the best way to do that is to align incentives, uh, show us the incentive, and we'll show you the outcome that we're driving towards. Our AD team is incentivized both by driving incremental return from a spend perspective for advertisers, as well as driving incremental volume for our consumer marketplace, which is very different than most advertising platforms. Most advertising houses, you have product and tech on one side driving growth, and you have ads trying to monetize it on the other side. We wanted to bring those together to make sure we were able to continue to grow on both sides and serve our customers best. Damian: And cut to date to this rise of, spectacular rise of retail media, which of course is one of the hottest topics right now in our space. DoorDash of course has built its own retail media network in recent years. Could you talk a little bit about how you took some of those concepts you just talked about and built the network? Toby: Yeah, absolutely. So we, again we wanted to be completely aligned with the customer. So the first customer that we started to think about was the SMB owner operator restaurant that we all know, that's in our town. In San Francisco, it's Suvla. In New York, it's Electric Burrito. These places that, these brands [00:08:00] that we are absolutely in love with. What we quickly realize is that person, that customer, there's two fundamental things that are very difficult. The first is that they have to be an expert at 15 different things So, if we own a local restaurant, a local retailer, We have to be great at real estate. We have to be great at marketing. We have to be great at financials. We have to be great at accounting. We have to be great at customer service. We have to be great at creating a great product, which is food, right? And so when we look at this core customer, they're supposed to be an expert at 15 different things Our job is to go after one of those. And make sure that they don't have to think about that growth as [00:09:00] much as they used to by putting a little bit of the burden of that growth on our shoulders. What that means in practice when we launched the business for for SMB customers, we focused on building an economic model that worked for them. Last week, in San Francisco, I went and picked up a salad. at, at one of my favorite, favorite places. And there was a restaurant right next door that had just opened a month in. A month in, and nobody in his restaurant. Completely empty. Maybe three or four people in a, in, that could otherwise have a capacity of 50. And I went online and I looked. He was running advertising across a bunch of different channels that we all know. Snap, Google, Meta, etc. This person was in the red month day one of the month. It's one of the hardest things in this country. These small businesses that start [00:10:00] negative every single month. And on top of that, they also had to layer in more spend on Google and meta to try to get out of that hole. We took the premise of we want to be your growth assistant and we took the premise of it's really, really hard. for you to basically grow your business without having to also add more money into this negative cash cycle. And we said, let's build a product where you do not have to pay us unless you get an order. So unless we send you money, you do not have to pay us. And those two things together have helped us build one of the fastest growing retail media networks, particularly focused on a customer that was completely underserved. Damian: Could you talk about, a little bit more about how you [00:11:00] kind of expanded those relationships with both the national brands, tying that into the local, the business works at a local level fundamentally. Toby: So in the restaurant space. The vast, vast majority of restaurants on Main Street are local. Even if you are a McDonald's franchisee, so you have one of the largest brands, you're a, you're a small business owner. Really, the, the Starbucks, the Chipotles of the world that are corporately owned restaurants at scale are actually the smallest. They're the 10%, not the 90 percent in the U. S. And so our ad product designed on a CPA based level where we can be the growth assistant for all these owner operators is really for the 90. It's built for the majority. Um, that being said, we also just launched, uh, last week the our new product, which is our ad manager and our [00:12:00] ad manager for the enterprise restaurant segment is designed actually to help both the C. M. O. Of McDonald's and the owner operator franchisee within the system. And the way that we've done that is we've actually built the first of its kind way of buying or thinking about purchasing across A national media buyer, an agency at the national level, a district media buyer, most of these franchisees actually also have districts, or DMAs, where they have their own pools of funds that can be allocated for growth, and then also at the local level. Incremental to that, not only is if you're a franchisee and you own a couple McDonald's and a couple, uh, you know, a couple Subways and a couple other brands. Now you can also manage your business across brands. It's really the first of a kind product in its space, designed entirely to kind of work between local and national brand. We also, of course, support local. started to invest in larger CPGs. And there, you know, we really look at some of the other large retail media networks in the [00:13:00] space. You know, today I was reading the the amazing work that you all did with a woman who leads Kroger's retail media business and built it from scratch. We find a lot of inspiration from those folks learning, understanding how we can add an incremental service to folks that are already spending a lot of money at other retail media networks. And, um, and I think we found Uh, some very cool opportunities for us there, Ilyse: Very cool. You were saying how it's about 90 percent SMBs and 10 percent um, big business. Um, how does that play out within the DoorDash platform? Toby: yeah. yeah. So so it's really and when I meant that it's kind of think about where the dollars are coming from. So You might think of DoorDash Volume as large businesses. You know, a lot of people are ordering McDonald's. But the reality is the, the spender, the buyer of media could be a local franchisee. So the brand is national, but the spend is still local. That's kind of what I was saying there. On [00:14:00] the, as you know, also on the CPG side, uh, large brands like Pepsi and Coca Cola and P& G, those are large, national, entrenched franchises. Brands. Those are timeless, timeless brands that have been around for a very long time. And so the question there is, how do we build products that are timely to help the timeless? And that's been a very interesting journey for us over the last two and a half years. It's a, it's a new space for us again, as I said. Um, but it's going swimmingly well. And, and today we have the opportunity to sit on stage with, with Pernod Ricard, which is, of course, one of the storied alcohol manufacturers. Ilyse: Um, can you talk a little bit about the Partnerships and how you actually go about working with like those brands and retailers that are using your platform so much Toby: We, like I said, were founded as a growth helper. So built in our DNA is working with others to help them grow. We obviously have a [00:15:00] very large consumer marketplace that is that has helped those businesses grow. And so some of us think of in the same You know, uh, letters of other large consumer marketplaces like an Amazon, uh, like a Walmart e com. But we are fundamentally built in our DNA a partner oriented culture. What that means is first we get to partner with great local brands, mid market brands, national brands, add in the manufacturers, but that also means we get to do fun things like Add in Max, or add in Chase, or add in other folks where there are a lot of people, if given the opportunity, want to help local businesses grow. Our job is to help figure out a way to make that happen. Ilyse: would you say that is captured users I guess and they're Toby: It's a, no, it's a great question. The underlying thing is, how do we do it in a way that continues to compound our consumer promise, which is faster, better, cheaper. And, and, you know, we'll be the first to say there are some partnerships [00:16:00] where it doesn't necessarily help that much. And then there's other partnerships where it has been critical. Think about our Chase partnership and, and the depth in which we've built that partnership over time, where everybody that has a, you know, a Chase credit card has the opportunity to participate in one of the largest subscription, local subscription programs, uh, in the world. And so, some work quite well, others are challenging, and we're a first principled company that, that tries to get better every single day. Damian: Just to on that point are you very strategic about looking for new partnerships you know, that's an interesting one chase and of course there are many others but how do you think about it and go about building those different partnerships. Toby: Yeah it's a collaboration Internally within DoorDash, we have, uh, general managers that run different business units, just as myself. We have functional leaders like our incredible, uh, CMO Kofi, who has built one of the world's largest brands in a span of years, not decades, which is incredibly, incredibly amazing, and he is a celebrity. If you ever want to feel like a [00:17:00] celebrity, just walk with Kofi in Cannes for about 15 to 20 minutes and it'll be the coolest thing you'll ever experience. Um, next year, exactly, exactly. Um, but It's a collaboration across different functions, and then it's a collaboration with a partner. You know, one of the most interesting partnerships that we've launched in the last two years, from my vantage point, is we are a close partner with Amazon in Canada. Now, a lot of folks, when you think of DoorDash and Amazon would say, competitors, that, that doesn't work. Right. But we work really, really hard to try to figure out anywhere, if possible, with the largest businesses and brands that we look up to, is there a place that we can collaborate and again, help local businesses grow. That's the fundamental premise behind the whole thing Ilyse: very cool now what about when it comes to like an ad perspective. How are you working with these brands and partnering with them? Toby: Yeah, we are, I think in the ad ecosystem, you know, it's, it's, it's, there's a simple recipe that we're trying to follow. One is access. So can I [00:18:00] provide access for people to purchase? We, very early on, our first investment was in a self serve ad manager, so that local businesses could purchase our products, both promotions and our ad products, live themselves, without needing to talk to somebody. So that was first. So one is access. That's the news also from last week, where now we provide access to the largest restaurant brands, DMAs, and franchisees across the country. first of a kind product. Again, I know I keep saying that, but I'm very, very proud of it because not many people, not many technologists build for franchisees in this country. And they are one of the largest, um, one of the largest, most hardworking groups of individuals that that again, we look up to. Um, so one is access Two is providing the tools to get the best return possible. So that is, can I do better targeting? Can I? Are there new access points that I can, that I can get to? Along those lines, we've invested a lot in in better targeting again for those enterprise restaurants. [00:19:00] So today you can target new users, you can target lapsed users, you can do that if you're a brand, a small brand like a single owner operator, you can do it if you're a national restaurant, and you can also do it if you're one of the largest brands in the country. So one is better targeting tools and incrementality. And then the final is, is impressions. So, You know, DoorDash, again, we are humbly one of the favorite and largest marketplaces in the country. But we very well know there are other people that are hungry on a daily basis who are not eyes on DoorDash. And so, can we provide the ability for people, uh, for brands to reach those people using our data? And that was one of the announcements we made last week was as well. Ilyse: so one of the things I feel like DoorDash is almost known for in the advertising marketing space is it aligns itself to big occasions throughout the year. Ilyse: I know we saw [00:20:00] DoorDash for the Super Bowl, Mother's Day. Can you talk about how you plan for such occasions? And maybe what's your favorite one to work at on and be like present Toby: maybe what's Yeah We have learned over time that these occasions. Because we learned from our core customers, both the consumer and merchants that these occasions are important to them. So if you think of, if you think of Super Bowl, imagine you are a local owner operator of a wing restaurant in Tulsa. Super Bowl is your Super Bowl, right? It is the biggest day of the year where you sell out your entire inventory at the staff up, you have to build for it. We wanted to follow our customers into that moment. Mother's Day, huge moment. Both for folks where it's a special day to remember somebody or for folks that are trying to be a mother for the first time, right? So you have this both, both signs, [00:21:00] an incredible opportunity to reach consumers from an advertising perspective. Again, going back to partnerships, they're tricky. You have an advertiser who's excited to also follow you into that occasion. And what we try to do with these three way partnerships, we've done them with Wendy's, we've done them with Roku, we've done them with many others, trying to find three way alignment of incentives to, to again, drive local growth for our customers. Damian: I think one of the best gifts I ever got, was when my son was born somebody bought us a DoorDash gift card which was so helpful to have food delivered you know when you’re at home with this tiny little baby. Ilyse: Showing up at those occasions, but also, you know, just ongoing brand campaigns. How does that proximity, why is it important for brand building? How does this, like, enable you to extend into new categories? Toby: Yeah, have you? Um, Our Super Bowl commercial is a great example of this. This past year, uh, the words were a door to more DoorDash went from again being a single vertical single product company to a multi vertical multi product company in a very, very, very fast time frame. Now, consumers are incredible. They learn very quickly. Habits are harder to change and harder to adapt and move over [00:23:00] time. And so we are in the earliest innings of our consumers really understanding that now you could actually get a pair of sneakers delivered to you on DoorDash when you need a new pair, like I did this weekend in order to go for a run. And in that moment, being able to kind of jump on these large consumer moments help from our vantage point. Our 37 million monthly active users start to understand that really DoorDash is here as an assistant in your life across all of these categories and verticals whenever you need us. We aren't just Thai food, now we're also the ability to get something, uh, to get something when you're feeling sick. And, um, and we're very, very proud to do that and very humbled to do that for our customers. Damian: Yeah. that's uh, expanding the whole concept of, of of DoorDash. Um, speaking of expanding the concept, you know, you've also cultivated good partnerships with streaming partners, and you [00:24:00] mentioned Max a little bit earlier. Why is it that streaming and delivery seem to kind of work in synchrony? Toby: it's again, I think it goes back to the moment. There's a very happy moment in my household when we finish work. And we have some, we get a little, a door, a little ring on our door, and there's a package outside, and it's filled with two burritos. And we get to turn on Max and watch industry. There's a sliver of moment in time where we're just feeling absolute happiness and joy. Now, that is a moment that a lot of consumers around the country and around the world feel. We're trying to give everybody a little bit of time back. Again, this concept of putting the weight of other things on our shoulders as a company to help people, to help local economies grow, to help [00:25:00] save consumers time, to help Dashers make a little bit of extra money. That is what we are trying to do at Dash. And so, aligning ourselves in this moment of peace. This moment of just absolute happiness with a streaming service, which all of us experience, is a very nice moment to be right next to, uh, to be right next to these brands from a consumer perspective. And so they've been, they've been very, they've been great partnerships so far. We're very excited, uh, about, about thinking about finding more of those opportunities as time goes Damian: about door dashes as a way to get time back, you know, but of course it does does Ilyse: There's too many things to worry about outside of that. Damian: we're going to ask the inevitable question about AI and how, you know, obviously door dash must be integrated with AI technology. But how do you think about it as we look ahead? Toby: We, as a company were very [00:26:00] data driven company. We have been from our founding. Again, we are riding on the backs of one of the largest technological revolutions of our time, the Internet and then the Internet plus mobile. And so to say that we want to be and continue to be students about how this next revolution will change, both from. from our merchants, consumers and dashers lives. We are in the very earliest innings and we're trying to learn as fast as possible. Um, I think what's very exciting if you kind of take a step back and you again put on the mindset of the shoes of we are trying to be an assistant for all of our customers across a bunch of different ways. Dasher Make, uh, from a financial services perspective, helping them make more money, helping them find more opportunities to make money, consumers saving time, and merchants making more. If you kind of put yourselves in all those shoes, and we're trying to be an assistant, AI as a technology will only help accelerate our mission of doing that and then unlocking growth for local. I think we're going to [00:27:00] see one of the largest increases in, in growth that we desperately, desperately need for those. Places that are our favorite coffee shop, Thai food place, uh, and, and, um, you know, and place to go pick up your, your, your meds when you're a little sick. And so it's, it's a pretty cool future. We're very excited for it. Damian: in his 50 seat Toby: I, we are absolutely, we, to be, to be clear, we DoorDash. He's now using our ad product. So if we can send them any incremental customers, it'll help them. It'll help them grow his business. Damian: There's one more question, I guess. And it's a sort of like a forward looking question. And it's are there any innovations that you're thinking about into 2025 that can help with this growth mindset that you've been talking about? Toby: we, We've done an okay job. We've done a great job of the access point, which is opening up an ad manager, [00:28:00] opening up a self serve sponsored listing, allowing CPG brands to access our consumers. We've done it. We've done a great job at that. We've done an okay job at the second two, which is. once you open up a lot of this inventory and help find ways to grow, it gets complex. I think we've added incremental complexity so far to our customers' lives for most of our customers, our advertisers, and so our team is extremely excited, looking forward to continue to take more of the complexity out of our customer's lives as we layer in more complexity. On the product and engineering platform that we've built internally, and that is a very hard problem to solve, but I have one of the best teams to help us go solve that, and we're very excited to take it on.…

The Current Podcast

1
SiriusXM Media’s Lizzie Collins on the power of podcasts for influencers 19:36

19 weeks geleden19:36

19:36

SiriusXM Media’s Lizzie Collins joins The Current Podcast to discuss artificial intelligence, omnichannel campaigns and how influencers should utilize podcasts. Episode Transcript Please note, this transcript may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio. [00:00:00] Damian: I'm Damian Fowler. [00:00:01] Ilyse: And I'm Ilyse Liffreing [00:00:02] Damian: And welcome to this edition of the Current Podcast. [00:00:05] Ilyse: This week, we're delighted to talk with Lizzie Collins, the SVP of Ad Innovation and B2B Marketing at SiriusXM Media, the advertising arm of SiriusXM, which includes Pandora, the SiriusXM streaming network, as well as the podcast network. [00:00:21] Damian: There are likely very few people who know more about audio ad innovation than Lizzie, who was actually the very first salesperson at Pandora back in 2006. [00:00:31] Ilyse: As a leader at SiriusXM Media, her focus is growing the largest digital audio ecosystem in North America. [00:00:39] Damian: So without further ado, we'll start by asking Lizzie about what advertisers need to know about the audio ad opportunity in 2024. [00:00:47] Ilyse: So Lizzie, tell us, what is it that advertisers need to know about the opportunity to reach people on audio channels? [00:00:55] Lizzie: Yea, and thanks for having me. I love what you said about, I know everything about audio, but it's been quite a ride from 2006 until now. And I'd say that in this current moment in time, audio has such an important place in the consumer's life. 31, 32, whichever number you want to get hooked to percent of time spent with media is the audio format, and yet marketers are only allocating somewhere between 8, 9 under 10 percent of their media investment to this format. [00:01:21] So first and foremost, I want advertisers to know just the power of audio. It is an opportunity to reach customers in places where you can't reach them via display or video. It has the power to turn on their brain in a unique way because you have the theater of the mind that has to like fill in the pictures and the faces. [00:01:38] And so cognitively, it's just such a powerful way to message. And so when you match the power of the format with, Oh my gosh, there's all this incremental time that I'm not messaging to them. We just think there's a real opportunity in audio in general. [00:01:54] Ilyse: So looking at podcasting at least, podcasting isone of the fastest [00:02:00] growing digital channels. How have you been able to grow programmatic at Sirius XM and Pandora? [00:02:49] Lizzie: Well podcasting, I think we all love. We're here on a podcast. So this is very meta talking about podcasting on a podcast. I love that. I want to point that out for the listeners. podcasting is not [00:03:00] necessarily new, but the ability for advertisers to buy it at scale with maybe an audience based buying strategy with all of the tracking and targeting that they're used to in digital is what we've really foundationally been putting in place for the last two years. [00:03:13] So what many don't know is that SiriusXM Media, Pandora, SoundCloud, and all of our other partnerships operate on the AdsWiz platform. And we are an audio first technology company. We built all of our own audio, ad delivery, ad serving, tracking, and whatnot. The opportunity to modernize the podcast space is what's really been the key factor for us to drive revenue in that space. [00:03:35] And then specific to programmatic without those pipes, right? Without that ability to do dynamic ad insertion, to target audiences, to onboard data, and then digitally deliver those ads, you were going to have buyers doing what they were doing historically one show at a time. I can't tell you the stories, the horror stories of going into the clients and saying, here's our spreadsheet where we're tracking the [00:04:00] podcasts we think we should be buying based on Joe podcast guy in the corner who just happens to know the most about podcasts. [00:04:06] So It's, the first step was putting that foundational ad tech in place. And the second step has been taking all of what advertisers appreciate in terms of programmatic transaction and bringing it to podcasting. And that's where IAB and others are referencing this significant growth because it's this bringing the best of two worlds together into this medium. [00:04:26] Ilyse: What would you say are the advantages to programmatic ad buying on audio networks? How is it audience first? Well, [00:04:34] Lizzie: Well, I think overall you're seeing a big trend in advertisers. Brands, even within the client agencies, publishers wanting to reduce friction on the buy side and the transaction as a whole. So programmatic obviously has been that promise for, gosh, over a decade now, right? To Create just an effortless buying transaction. [00:04:57] And so when we think [00:05:00] about audio more specifically and audience based buying, like we have to be able to connect all of those pipes and be able to not be this hard to buy. Product. And so we've, you know, I spoke to that in my last example. that's been so much of the work we've done the last two years. [00:05:16] And then because of all of that, we're a little different than some other audio partners were open ecosystem. So we will work with any third party measurement vendor, transaction partners like the trade desk, um, targeting partners like Comscore and advertisers obviously have their own data and their own ways in which they want to measure. [00:05:34] And so that's also been, a huge breakthrough for us. For us in terms of allowing you said audience based buying. I mean, just allowing our clients to address their customers in this format in the most effortless way [00:05:46] Damian: One of the things that's interesting about audio is how it's different from, TV, which has traditionally been a big brand building medium. Of course, that's changing too because of CTV, but I'm interested to hear your thoughts on how Pandora thinks about [00:06:00] his ad offerings in terms of the balance between big brand campaigns and performance. [00:06:06] Lizzie: Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I think what's hidden in this question is creative in general and trying to help brands understand the power of what audio creative can do. It can create. effortlessly travel cross device, right? It can reach customers where they're not seeing a video ad or they're not seeing a display ad. [00:06:27] It can get right literally into their ears. And I talked about, the power of that. And so we, I would say, do talk to our customers about different products, drive different results. Of course, you might want mass reach and super efficient for, some effort. That you're trying to push maybe top of funnel or you need something super geo targeted You want to move specific product off a store shelf? [00:06:50] Yeah, that can impact targeting and that can impact some of what we sell you based on price But we spend a lot more time through our in house agency studio resonate [00:07:00] Helping to educate our customers on the right way to bring the video message into the audio format. If they're a video first creative agency, and that starts with an audio brief, you'd be surprised how many agencies do a creative brief and it doesn't include audio as a way to interpret the brand or determine the call to action. [00:07:20] And so once we get going in that direction, then we can take all aspects of their KP eyes and build custom creative to meet the needs of whatever they're trying to get the consumer to do. I love [00:07:30] Damian: I love that, can I ask a follow up question about that? What would you say are some of the salient points about building a good audio brief? Well, [00:07:47] Lizzie: is the largest podcast network for women in the United States. We beat everyone else. And it's that type of insight and then the creators that are within our podcast network to say, look, [00:07:58] Lizzie: Ashley Flowers is here. [00:07:59] She's a [00:08:00] massive star in the podcast world. She really has a tempo to her shows. It's true crime. These listeners are so leaned in that you don't need a music bed. You don't need a scream at the listener in that example, which might be more of a sort of traditional upbeat 15 second audio spot that might live in a music station. [00:08:19] And so a lot of it is trying to understand the customer. Then. What is the, context in which we're targeting? And then of course we have a million best practices about, testing creative. And we use a lot of third parties to come in and actually pre test creative. of course we have all of our own technology, which I mentioned. [00:08:34] So we'll AB test creative. and again, what I love about audio is that it's pretty effortless to build an audio ad. you can go from brief to a spec spot, 30 minutes. Or less if we're talking about a I produced creative, which we can talk about, too. And so to be able to have all that optionality for an agency to play with actually helps inform a lot of landing the brief. [00:08:58] And then, of course, we have something to [00:09:00] live with throughout a campaign to reach back to [00:09:02] Damian: So it's getting a lot more nuanced now that you mentioned creativity, and that's very interesting. [00:09:07] Lizzie: It's getting more nuanced because, look, you said I was the first salesperson at Pandora and I was, and we were only ever inserting a 15 or a 30 second spot in between your favorite song. Now we're talking about spoken word content, podcast, it could be sports, it could be country music, you're talking about, and then in car. [00:09:26] at home mobile. So the good news is all of that signal capture we do on our end that we can understand where ultimately this ads running and then that informs how many creative options you need. But it's not like video where that would take months to do, right? This is copy to add is quick. [00:09:54] Ilyse: When it comes to being more nuanced, looking at podcasts for instance, there’s so many different types op podcasts like true crime you brought up. I like those ones as well. Like crime junkie, [00:10:00] for instance. What kind of audiences are they attracting? And what does that mean for advertisers? [00:10:06] Lizzie: So the Sirius XM podcast network is over 2500 shows. So you're talking about we're have the most shows in the top 50, but we also have great shows, middle and long tail. And so, it's as diverse as everybody's tastes. I mean, everything from vibe check, which is three African American gay, really outspoken guys that do the latest on news interpreted from their eyes and their ears all the way into crime junkie all the way into sports. [00:10:34] we have shows about car racing, right? So it's That's what's so special about podcasting. But what's unique about Sirius XM and our specific network is that you don't have to come in and buy one show at a time. You can come in and say, I want women over index and true crime. So that's going to be a nice part of your buy. [00:10:53] and that's something unique , to what we offer. [00:11:00] Ilyse: It's surprising to me, women and true crime for some reason. [00:11:01] Lizzie: I know. You know what? I think it's because so many women want to escape. They're day for a moment, all of our beloved housewives at home, like commuting kids around. And it's very cerebral. what's really cool about true crime that I don't think a lot of people understand if you don't listen, is it's problem solving. [00:11:21] It's like really detailed, trying to get to the bottom of what happened with the story. And I think it turns the brain on in a way that is invigorating. [00:11:29] Ilyse: Yeah, on that note, is True Crime like one of the most popular or what are some of those popular genres [00:11:36] Lizzie: there's so many. Comedy is very popular. Team Coco with Conan O'Brien is within our network. Smartless is a really popular TV show. Sort of mixed in with almost pop culture and comedy. sports is growing fast and specifically, women's sports, which is great. And what, I think is fun about that is there's so much story to tell behind the scenes in sports. [00:11:58] And I think podcasts can do that in a [00:12:00] way that linear TV can't, news, true crime like we mentioned. And yeah, those would be like my tops. [00:12:07] Ilyse: Very cool. Why do you think women's sports is growing [00:12:09] Lizzie: I just think there's so much of a story to tell about a lot of the women athletes and it's all over the news, right? What's happening in women's basketball, women's soccer is now a professional sport where you can make a career at it. I think there's just so much growth in terms of audiences leaning in and there's a bunch of commercial opportunity there. [00:12:29] And so, women want to tell, women want to tell their story. And you can do that in podcasting in a way you cannot do in other media types. That's why we're here! [00:12:38] Damian: exactly. Yeah. Now, according to your research with Edison, 66 percent of Gen Z podcast listeners say they listen to or watch podcasts to stay up to date with the latest topics. But only 17 percent say they trust the info they read on social media, our podcast hosts, the new, more trusted social media influences. [00:12:58] Lizzie: I mean, yes, [00:13:00] short answer is yes, but I don't think it's just podcast. I think any influencer out there that is very invested in their craft and their trade and having a commercial opportunity and being an influencer understands the power of how podcasting and audio more specifically helps them reach their audience. [00:13:16] So Ashley flowers is a great example. She's on social all the time, whether she's talking about fashion or her famous lip color or what shows are coming up next, different cases that she's, researching. [00:13:28] And so you'll often see her listeners kind of go back and forth on social and that ultimately informs her show. And so this, ecosystem connection is what these influencers are after. And I think the power of the podcast format is they can just tell deeper stories and therefore tell deeper, you know, why to buys for the products that are integrated. [00:13:49] So some are probably more comfortable than others, but the audio influencer, and the other thing to add is just like they're connected to their audience in a way off social media and into the [00:14:00] podcast where they can just use more words. They can just describe something beyond the snippet based format that is social for all of us.. [00:14:12] Damian: And why is that effective for advertisers? Why is that helpful? [00:14:14] Lizzie: I just think they can riff. It's just it's out again outside of the 15 or 30 second window. They can riff about why they like the product. They can go deeper into the benefits of it or what is cool about it to them. so personal endorsement. I mean, that's what they're able to do in that space. [00:14:29] And it's a super powerful way for advertisers to drive, their KPIs. [00:14:34] Damian: So, when it comes to that omni channel experience, podcasts are, and you mentioned that you're part of this open network. It's good for advertisers to be able to reach their audience on the podcast, but beyond that, it can obviously, drive an omni channel campaign. [00:14:51] Lizzie: Yeah. And I'm glad you brought that up. We were so curious about what is the true income mentality of a podcast listener. And [00:15:00] so for the last year, we've been analyzing campaigns. We actually analyzed over 2000 campaigns to determine when we add podcasting to a streaming plan, how much more incremental reach. [00:15:11] And it depends on the campaign. But the mean was 32%. Incremental audience was captured in the podcasting line, essentially being added to the order. And so without that, those customers would have never been messaged. And I think that's just a really good example of the power of what Sirius XM media brings to bear. [00:15:29] Even in the audio space, we have such a multi channel opportunity for our marketers. [00:15:34] Ilyse: So, I saw an interview with you last year talking about how advertisers can use AI to save costs. And that's seems like a very common refrain in the industry right now because things have moved very fast on the front. How are you thinking about a I in 2024 this year? Yeah, you [00:15:54] Lizzie: you know, there's a lot. [00:15:56] Lizzie: around AI, a lot of buzz and how does it ultimately [00:16:00] land for each of us to make our lives easier or to augment what we're already doing. And one of the things that we see with smaller brands and smaller buys is that sometimes they feel like there's a barrier of entry if they don't have audio creative. [00:16:17] And so we've done a lot of testing to leverage AI to be able to like. self service, the creative process. And so, that's where we're leveraging AI, which is just to take a company that, might be in media agency. That's of one person, right? That kind of like kitchen counter, digital marketer that might have a couple clients. [00:16:35] Maybe they have a couple car dealers or maybe they have a couple of doctor's offices. And so we have a really great product that they can use in our audio go, which is our self serve buying tool to just come in and quickly make an audio ad. and they're off to the races. And so that's where we've tried to bring it forth is just where can we make someone that might be stuck because they don't have the resources, how can we help them scale? [00:16:58] And so AI [00:17:00] helps us do that. I think there's also a future of where we'll see AI show up and how we're just crunching numbers for our clients and how we're processing data. It's just about speed and scale. It's not going to replace our creators. We're, there's no AI Conan coming anytime soon. [00:17:16] Ilyse: a particular sector of brand that have been, more friendly towards audio ads or have approached audio? More enthusiastically than others? Mm [00:17:29] Lizzie: years into this selling audio business. And I would say years ago, yes, it would be, entertainment really understood the power of it. And maybe someone like CPG was like, ah, if I don't show the girl shampooing her hair, how's anyone going to understand how this product works? [00:17:44] But we're so past that. There's no one vertical. I think just the one. Overwhelmingly, it's just an underspent problem and that audio and the consumer behavior and audio is outpaced the marketer's investment. So that's just most of what we spend time helping them to [00:18:00] understand. [00:18:02] Damian: Do you still think, given the big opportunity that audio represents, there's a lot more education to be done for marketers? And what does that look like? Yeah. [00:18:28] Lizzie: is last click attribution. Not to say that everyone's doing that now. [00:18:31] Many of our customers are going to more of a mixed media model. And so it's just helping them to figure out where do you put audio in your measurement plan? How do we work together to make sure you're understanding where you're delivering impressions against what customers and how ultimately that's driving your KPIs. [00:18:48] But it requires a conversation and education because they're not inherently, if they're not buying it, they don't know how to measure it and they could be undervaluing it or giving value to a different partner because they weren't capturing the right [00:19:00] data signal. [00:19:01] Ilyse: How do you guys measure it? [00:19:03] Lizzie: So it depends on what they're looking for. Of course, there's many amazing third parties out there that were integrated with to measure everything from store traffic to attitudinal intent. but again, back to the fact that we own all of our own ad tech, we sit on The right data in a very privacy safe place to be able to work with clean rooms or work with advertisers directly or partners to share impression level data or whatever is the right signal in order for them to recognize if that customer converted so it's not rocket science. [00:19:32] All of us that are in this space understand how it works, but because we sit on all of our own ad tech and we're open to working with anyone, we personalize it for whatever the customer wants. [00:19:42] Damian: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. [00:19:44] We'll be back next week, so stay tuned. [00:19:47] Ilyse: The Current Podcast's theme is by Love Caliber. The current team includes Kat Vesce and Sydney Cairns. [00:19:55] I'm Damian. [00:19:55] Ilyse: I'm Ilyse. [00:19:56] Damian: And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.…

The Current Podcast

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Resy’s Hannah Kelly on building community and connection 20:14

20 weeks geleden20:14

20:14

The reservation platform Resy centers itself around the communal experience that comes from dining, affirming and building connection between restaurants and diners, according to CMO Hannah Kelly. Episode Transcript Please note, this transcript may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio. [00:00:00] Damian: I'm Damian Fowler. [00:00:01] Ilyse: And I'm Ilyse Liffreing [00:00:02] Damian: welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. [00:00:05] Ilyse: This week, we're delighted to talk with Hannah Kelly, the CMO of Resy. [00:00:09] Damian: Want to make a restaurant reservation? American Express owned Resy is there for you. With over 40 million global users, the app has driven over 600 million reservations. Now that's a lot of fine dining, I imagine. [00:00:23] Ilyse: With almost 14 years of working at American Express under her belt, Hannah leads marketing efforts to connect restaurants and tastemakers. [00:00:31] Damian: We start off by talking about the value of customer data and how insights inform Resy's marketing strategy. [00:00:38] Damian: We work in an industry where, data is capital. You know, how does Resy rely on the customer data, especially from its parent company, American Express? [00:00:47] Hannah: Sure. So thank you so much for having me. And you could argue that the premise of the Resyacquisition was based on American Express's deep use of data. So when we look at spend at American Express, dining one [00:01:00] of our highest spend categories. We reached 100 billion in spend for the full year in 2023 for the first time ever. [00:01:06] So for us, being an American Express and in the business of membership, we are constantly looking for ways to engage and attract card members and deepen our relationships with merchants. Resy naturally presented that opportunity as a way for us to own an asset, own a brand, and build a community of being able to connect the world's best restaurants to the world's best diners on a proprietary basis. [00:01:28] Damian: That makes a lot of sense. I, as an Amex owner, do spend a lot in restaurants. I wonder if you have any interesting stories around turning those insights into action. [00:01:38] Hannah: Sure. So, We know that millennials and Gen Z's are worried about making the perfect reservation. In fact, we commissioned our own research and we found that 50 percent of the millennial and Gen Z population are worried about making the perfect reservation. [00:01:52] And so with that, that drove three sort of primary objectives and campaigns for us. So first is our brand platform. we launched a brand platform in [00:02:00] 2023 called Reservationships, which is really meant to highlight how that Resy is more than reservations, really being that trusted partner in crime when you don't know where to go. [00:02:09] You want to have that fine dining moment with your potential in laws to be with a new date. How can we really own the fact that Resy has served as that sort of curator, and role. I think the second piece has been, this past year we introduced our Resy shareable hit list. so what that function allows you to do in the iOS app is anyone can go in and create a list based on any title that you want. [00:02:31] Go to date nights. Kid friendly places. You name it. We have some very creative takes in there. and you can share them out with friends. So again, it's really meant to give users the confidence that they are selecting and making the best reservation possible for them. [00:02:48] Hannah: And we've extended that and really leaned into that a bit more with our third deliverable this year, which has been around the launch of our discover tab. [00:02:54] So now when you go into the Resy app, you not just only see a list of restaurants based [00:03:00] on your location or cities. We've always had collections, but now our discover tab actually brings in all of our editorial content into the app. And just for reference in Q one of 2024, we highlighted over 000 plus restaurants in all of our editorial across 300 stories. [00:03:17] So now all of that content is there in formats that can helpfully guide users on how they can connect with restaurants that they should love if they don't know them already and ones that they want to continue to celebrate their love for and be a patron of. [00:03:28] Ilyse: You know, retail data continues to have a moment among marketers. In your experience, how much do these insights influence your strategy? And what do you think is the future of this type of data? [00:03:42] Hannah: So I think for us, guest research is the number one place that we constantly look to. And for us, a lot of that is where are people notifying, where are people searching, where are people dining. And at American Express, we're able to see where our card members are spending. And with Resy, we're able to see where they're searching. [00:03:57] And we use that to inform our research. Anything from [00:04:00] the restaurants that we go after on our platform. So being really thoughtful around what are the types of cuisines that might be missing? What are the types of underrepresented cuisines or restaurants that we need to bring onto our platform? So what's not being searched for? [00:04:11] and then obviously our product offering. So as mentioned, really trying to tap into ways that we can not only help diners based on research that we've collected, but also By introducing the discover tab by introducing things like shareable hit list. Those give us new avenues to really discover. What are the trends and what are the capabilities and offerings that Resy can provide? [00:04:31] And even more importantly, what can we pass to our restaurants that they could learn about guests that they might not be able to get on their own? So we think about it not only as What type of research can we use to improve the experience around discoverability and in restaurant dining, but also think about how we can use that a differentiator for our partners and for our restaurants on our platform as well. [00:04:51] Ilyse: That's, that's made me curious. What is the, most popular cuisine that Resy users are, [00:05:00] are making reservations for? [00:05:01] Hannah: I don't know the exact cuisine type, but I can tell you we typically look at the types of cities that we see a lot of dining demand around, and we use that to really guide where we have a lot of our restaurant partners. We also really care about shining a light on underrepresented food types as well. [00:05:16] So, We did a ton of work during, COVID 19 around highlighting the importance of Chinatown and the love stories of Chinatown, knowing that there is xenophobia happening as a result of the pandemic. also in the spring of 2020, when we think back to the wake of George Floyd, looking at how we can really highlight black owners and operators and chefs in our community. [00:05:35] And that's something that we had always done. So, we again look at what's been searched, what hasn't been searched and really how we want to perpetuate the diversity, and future of the industry in the best way possible. [00:05:47] Damian: You mentioned the site is more than a reservations app, and you're basically building kind of editorial and curated content. that's fascinating. could you say a little bit more about that and how you target taste makers and [00:06:00] people in the know and those underrepresented kind of food types that you mentioned? [00:06:04] Hannah: So believe it or not, we get asked all the time if restaurants have to apply to be on Resy and what the selection process is. There is no selection process. Any restaurant can pay to be on Resy. But I think the reason why we get that is because of how we are able to surface and highlight the restaurants on our platform in a way that goes beyond just the menu and when their hours of operation are. [00:06:27] So for us, that's really thinking about the editorial stories, as mentioned, where we have, A whole entire editorial team that's dedicated to coming up with ongoing franchises, like the one who keeps the books, which is our most popular, where we see, our guests going in and figuring out of the top restaurants from the actual owners and operators, when they release inventory, how they release inventory, and how best to get seated, also longer form content as well. [00:06:52] Beyond our edit. We're really an experiential brand as well. We'll do around 200 events by the end of [00:07:00] 2024 with restaurant partners. Why? Because we know that our guests want to be able to experience restaurants and get that behind the scenes, behind the curtain look and feel. And our restaurant partners view us as a co conspirator and collaborator. [00:07:13] We meet with our top restaurant partners. Frequently and instead of saying, Hey, how is your performance with Rosie? How are you enjoying? We talk about what are your 5 10 year growth plans? What are you thinking about in the immediate future that's keeping you up? What story do you want to be able to tell? [00:07:27] What opening do you have? What new product? What front of house team member do you want to celebrate and really use that to help guide and inspire how we create a lot of our content, not just for edit, but in real life experiences. Yes. [00:07:48] Damian: I suppose that feeds into that in many ways. But, how do you strike a balance between telling those stories and your own story? It's [00:07:57] Hannah: not about us. people care about Resy because of the [00:08:00] restaurants on our platform. And I think Resy, when it was founded in 2014, really came out with a differentiated view, which is we want to be for restaurants by people from the restaurant community. And it's not about the dollar that Resy wants to spend. [00:08:13] It's to take or make from the restaurant partners. So we've really maintained that not only in our business offering but in our brand story. And when I look at the reservations platform that we developed last year, it's not about Resy and about how great Resy is. It's about the relationships. that we broker, broker between restaurants and the broader industry and the community. [00:08:33] So all of the B to B and industry support that we do, on the guest side, obviously building relationships and starting new ones between guests and hopefully restaurants that they want to become a regular with and between our diners as well, celebrating why people love going out. And when we look at our editorial, we're trying to curate around insights. [00:08:52] [00:09:00] Um, it's really about creating a platform and owning the fact that we are a network and that our restaurants are greater than us. And in doing that and having the right level of gravitas towards our partners. In turn, I think that's what has allowed Resy y to become a little bit more of a darling than maybe some of our competitors. [00:09:20] Damian: So interesting. And in terms of, like, the results that you're seeing from this kind of, integration of these different stories and balancing between restaurants and guests, are there any new innovations that you're looking at this year to kind of keep that in motion? Yeah, [00:09:35] Hannah: I think this year. So the discover tab and our shareable lists were really big launches for us this year. So it's really starting to think about what that ecosystem looks like and owning that as a platform for our guests in our restaurants to tell their story. [00:09:51] I think also leaning into our relationships with our partners. So this summer, what's really exciting in a prime example of this is the [00:10:00] Unapologetic experience that we push live with our partners at Unapologetic Foods. So, for context, Unapologetic Foods is a hospitality group, Indian hospitality group, based in New York. [00:10:11] Very, very highly sought after restaurants, such as SEMA. and in fact, the New York Times did an entire story on how you could get into SEMA. Um, it Yeah, [00:10:21] Ilyse: jealous of them all. [00:10:23] Hannah: Which, by the way, the Resy Notify does work for SEMA. I can't tell you how many friends have texted me to say, I got off the list at SEMA, the feature works. [00:10:31] I'm like, thank you so much for validating. Also, going early works as well, which you'll find in the one who keeps the books. But, a prime example of this year and how we've really kind of put all these insights to practice has been when we met with Ronnie, the owner of Unapologetic Foods. I think it's really important to note that, when I was in the United States last year, he had really expressed a deep desire to try and get the word out and spread the word and love of Indian food outside of the major cities in the United States. [00:10:58] so basically trying [00:11:00] to make Indian food as mainstream as American or as Italian and how it's pretty underrepresented. He was a crazy thought, but I just wanted to share that with you. That's what I'm really thinking about. He said, Absolutely not crazy. Let's actually sit and think about how we could create a tour, what that experience would look like, really taking a nod and inspiration from him. [00:11:20] His dream was to go on tour. We pulled on that thread, and this past summer we have gone live in three different cities, L. A., Chicago, and D. C., at different Southeastern Asian cuisine. [00:11:31] Ilyse: glad to [00:11:31] Hannah: Those chefs collaborated with Ronnie and his team on a custom menu. There's content around it. And again, our job there is greater than Resy. [00:11:39] It's greater than a reservation. It's really about. So we're here at the Anna Jack Thai restaurant, unlocking something that was important to our partners. We had an hour long wait at the Anna Jack Thai experience the first night, even some influencers who were not asked to go standing in line for over an hour, which, again, is a testament to, I think, tapping into a real trend, but that really coming from an authentic place [00:12:00] from the restaurants on our platform and treating them as collaborators. [00:12:03] Damian: I just want to say I'm glad to hear that about Indian food because, you know, I'm originally from Britain and, Indian food is our number one cuisine. So it was always amazing to me that it was never that big in the U. S. I certainly, I think maybe New York it has been because there's a special area to the city, but in general, it's good to hear [00:12:19] Hannah: It's not the same as Britain. it's really not. And I think with Ronnie, his staff and the front of house team, they take the time to really educate you. So if you go to SEMA, They'll give you the menu, they'll assess, what you're there for, why, but they have no problem demystifying and taking the lead on walking you through why each dish is special, why their biryani has a very special rice, which is different because of the region of India that the chef is from versus what you might see somewhere else and calling attention to things that diners might not pick up on other than like, Oh, I know I need to go here because it's a hot reservation. [00:12:54] They really take the time to use that as an opportunity to tell a bigger story and hopefully make a bigger impact. [00:13:00] Now you've spent [00:13:02] Ilyse: years working at American Express. That's like a tenure that's almost unheard of in today's working landscape, let alone marketing. And you've worn many hats at American Express. So we're going to talk a little bit about your experience along the way. How has this experience shaped your philosophy now as CMO? [00:13:17] Hannah: already shaped your philosophy now. At American Express, I had come from fashion PR, which was very much here's this asset. Here's this piece. Go pitch it, send out a sample, get it back, and it felt very transactional. I started on the open brand strategy team, which was our small business branded American Express at the time, and the number one thing the team was focused on was this new report that had come out around what is on the mind of a small business owner, and the number one [00:14:00] insight was help me get more customers. [00:14:02] And in that moment, I remember sitting in this conference room thinking, Oh, God, how is American Express going to tackle this? What do we do? And really, it was diving in and understanding they just need a day. They need a moment that's going to get people to go out and shop. So with the partnership of many agencies and teams internally, we came up the most simple idea possible, which was small business Saturday. [00:14:25] And here we are entering its 15th year. It launched with a Facebook page and really just anything possible to help get more business to small businesses was the premise. Since that time on, and now almost 14 years later, I've always tried to think about what is that deeper, higher order insight that we have the opportunity to serve and have translated that through all the many years and months of experience in American Express and now Resy and Resy, we acquired and closed Resy in July of 2019. [00:14:56] We're in the process of integrating the companies, making [00:15:00] sure that we're keeping Resy and figuring out how we bring the best to bear of American Express. And then a pandemic happens, which brought our industry to its knees. So again, pulling on that same tool, what's the number one thing we needed to do? [00:15:11] How do we keep our restaurants afloat? So at the other end of this pandemic, there are restaurants that we can serve on our platform. And with that, We met the chief medical officer of American Express, figured out that we have a chief medical officer in American Express, and looked at ways that we could create COVID safe dining behaviors. [00:15:28] And that led to sponsorship of outdoor experiences across 45 restaurants within the state. So again, just, I think, really listening and being obsessed with the customer. It has paid dividends. And [00:15:45] Damian: up, that's a tremendous legacy. 15 years of small business Saturday, yes, must be satisfying. And then as you think about Resy now and building out that future, do you have, um, do you have Goals that you want to achieve this year five years down the line [00:16:00] And maybe I don't know if you have any thoughts on that. [00:16:03] I'm sure you do [00:16:03] Hannah: Yeah. So this year is actually our 10 year anniversary at Resy. and it's amazing to see you to the point of all the growth that you cited at the beginning of the taping. Like what? What we've had in that short period of time, and I think for us, it's really been because we've been that co conspirator and partner to the industry. [00:16:22] So for us, The next sort of chapter of Resy is really going to be harnessing that even more, which is when you are a restaurant and you're trying to think of how you can grow your business, how you're trying to get your story out there. Who are you turning to? I want you to be thinking about Resy. [00:16:37] And I don't want you to be thinking about Resy just from the sake of a table management platform or a demand network. I want you to be thinking about us as a critical partner in helping you scale, grow your demand, tell that story of a cuisine type, build an experience that only we could be able to partner with. [00:16:55] And then from a guest side, when you have a dining occasion, I want [00:17:00] you to come to Resy, yes, of course, to think about that. But. But I also want to be the destination to help curate and really be the trendsetter that anytime you're trying to figure out what is happening in my city, a city that I'm traveling to in the broader food industry at large, what does that mean? [00:17:16] And I think a great example of how that is sort of coming to life now is, as part of American Express's relationship with Disney, they actually approached us to think about how we could do a deeper integration for the season three premiere of the bear. Why the bear? All about food. You have people at home now saying corner when they're cooking in their kitchen, and I didn't know what that meant prior to watching that show. [00:17:40] They came to American Express because of our ownership of Resy and what we mean to that industry. So we actually hosted a private screening for American Express card members for the first, and we're also doing episodes one and two of season three at Kusama, one of our L. A restaurants. and that's really because these brands are [00:18:00] looking to figure out how do we authentically play in food and they're thinking Resy. [00:18:03] So how do we continue to evolve on that? What does that mean? How are we meeting our customers? The industry where it needs to be and really being seen as that sort of foothold. Wow. [00:18:15] Damian: that's amazing. That's the bear the hulu connection. That's fantastic [00:18:20] Ilyse: [00:18:20] Damian: I read Anthony Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential many years ago, but it seems like, people's interest in food and cuisine is hotter than ever. If I may say, what's your take on [00:18:33] Hannah: Couldn't agree more. and I think that if anything positive coming out of COVID 19 was that it taught us all and showed us all the importance of restaurants and what they mean to us. [00:18:43] So I think coming out of COVID, the number one thing that we heard and we've seen, and even as, as personally, I felt is, Wanting to go out and congregate and to be with people that I love friends, coworkers, family and restaurants are the gathering place for that. [00:19:00] And when that was taken away, I think that was really indicative of what this culture is missing and the role that restaurants can play in that. [00:19:07] And what you've seen is, I think, a genuine interest from the average consumer or diner who is just wanting to understand, What the importance of those restaurants are is like how they operate how we can keep them in business Get that peek behind the curtain. You're seeing shows like the bear emerge and [00:19:27] I think, really indicates that reservations are a form of cultural currency, which is something that we talk about, inside Terezi. So our job is to really harness that, that sort of cultural zeitgeist moment and really use that as a way to help prop up more restaurants, keep them in business, and drive more demand. [00:19:45] Hannah: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. [00:19:47] Damian: We'll be back next week, so stay tuned. [00:19:50] Ilyse: The Current Podcast's theme is by Love Caliber. The current team includes Kat Vesce and Sydney Cairns. [00:19:56] Damian: And remember, I'm Damian. [00:19:58] Ilyse: I'm Ilyse. [00:19:59] Damian: [00:20:00] And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.…

The Current Podcast

1
Colgate-Palmolive’s Brigitte King on steering a global giant through digital transformation 20:30

21 weeks geleden20:30

20:30

Colgate-Palmolive’s Brigitte King breaks down steering a global giant through digital transformation. She explores the value of connected TV and its data-driven addressability, why she thinks the marketing funnel looks more like a seesaw and how she’s thinking about riding the retail media wave. Episode Transcript Please note, this transcript may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio. [00:00:00] Ilyse: I'm Ilyse Liffreing. [00:00:01] And I'm Damian Fowler. [00:00:06] Damian: And welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. This week we're delighted to talk with Brigitte King, the Global Chief Digital Officer at Colgate [00:00:11] Ilyse: Brigitte King, the Global Chief Digital Officer of Colgate. [00:00:22] Damian: Of course, these days Colgate Palmolive is a thriving global company with an extensive portfolio of products and billions of customers worldwide. We [00:00:30] Ilyse: of customers worldwide. [00:00:33] Brigitte: global remit in a world awash with data. So Brigitte, [00:00:36] Damian: So Brigitte, let's start. Um, what are the main challenges and opportunities for CPG brands, right now in a world where the shelf is digital and it's extremely competitive? [00:00:46] Brigitte: first, thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. And I did love that, 1800s, date you threw in there. [00:00:52] Um, just for context, you know, we are, a company with a lot of legacy brands and a lot of longevity, and that's actually something great for [00:01:00] the company. but we've got dynamic change ahead of us. And what's fantastic is the company recognizes that. So they've embarked on a digital transformation, a data and analytics transformation, the kinds of things that we need to do to really modernize our brands in a digital first world. [00:01:17] So we do have challenges, like you said. I think that CPG brands have been, somewhat late to the party in terms of really, Getting to the digital and data transformations that we need to do. But by no means are they shy about it. I think everybody has embarked on that change management journey. And the great thing about Colgate is we started it, you know, many years ago and certainly with a lot of speed the last four years. [00:01:42] And the challenges are around modernizing how we reach consumers. the challenges are around making sure we care about the digital shelf as much as the physical shelf. And we sell toothpaste in cartons and tubes and it's on the shelf. But it's been pretty incredible, certainly post, the pandemic, [00:02:00] how quickly we had to master selling online. [00:02:03] And it is a very different skill. It's a very different capability. It requires content. It requires, mastery of the algorithm. It requires working with your retailers in many new and different ways. But I'm really proud to say that, with 15 percent econ penetration of our total sales, we're getting the job done. [00:02:20] Damian: So could you say a little bit more about the opportunity of digital transformation? What does it mean? [00:02:25] Brigitte: Sure. For us, what it means is, is strategically making sure that we can start outperforming in digital commerce. And that means whether it's last mile delivery, or whether it's with our e retailers, or whether it's with our D to C businesses, which we have skin care brands and our skin health division, PCA Skin, L to MD, Philorga, those are all online direct to consumer businesses. [00:02:51] So digital commerce runs the gamut, is my point. And strategically, it means we want to learn to do better. And I'll perform category and [00:03:00] market growth in that arena. The second big pillar of digital transformation is really making a step change in the way we plan, deploy, and use our digital media. So we are a business, as you said, grounded in many years of legacy, that has often been TV first and TV heavy, and that's no longer the case. [00:03:21] Colgate Palmolive globally is weighted over 65 percent in digital media at this point in time. So we have had to do a lot to upskill. Our teams and really make sure that our digital media is working every single dollar as best as we can. I'm very proud for the teams on the ground to say that the R. Y. S. [00:03:41] Have been very positive. And so that means we're really mastering how we do business in digital today. We want [00:03:46] Damian: We want to ask you a little bit about that upskilling later on in the podcast. But I wanted to have a quick question, you know, I'm talking about legacy brands. And I know that, just for instance, one of the toothpaste brands, Colgate's toothpaste [00:03:58] Brigitte: Yes. [00:03:59] Damian: it's about the most [00:04:00] famous toothpaste brand. [00:04:02] You get, how does better marketing or digital marketing even drive brand loyalty for say, those toothpaste customers? Aren't they already loyal? [00:04:11] Brigitte: Not all of them, right? So we have, of course, loyal Colgate users. We also have people who switch. and we have people to grow your brand that have to actually come in to the brand and to the category. [00:04:22] So if you think about, let's get pragmatic. You think about One of the, um, what we call need states of toothpaste is what do a lot of people want? Whiter teeth, right? So, they're looking for whitening products, whiter toothpaste that whiten. And what you see in search terms, is a lot around where the discovery journey begins. [00:04:43] And so you also can understand how they're searching. Well then, the job of a marketer today is not to only understand those trends and those keywords, but to develop the content. that is relevant to those search, behaviors that are going on. And then guess what? You have to then deploy the content [00:05:00] on all the right channels and in the right touch points to be present when the consumer is searching for information and researching about whitening, but then more importantly, how do you get into their consideration set, right? [00:05:12] Into the mental availability of, I'm interested, oh Colgate has something, let me go a little deeper here. And then the moment of truth online, right? Which is the moment of conversion. And I don't mind if they convert, and none of us do, right? On a physical shelf or a digital shelf. The point is to get their attention and to get into the consideration set. [00:05:33] to prove that you have great ratings and reviews, great product benefits that they're seeing on the PDP product detail pages, and you will move them to the point of conversion, be it physical or virtual. [00:05:44] Damian: I like that. [00:05:46] Brigitte: Yeah. Now, as [00:05:47] Ilyse: know, retail media is absolutely exploding and along with that retail data. How is retail data and the opportunity of RMNs helping you with more precise targeting of potential customers? So this [00:05:59] Brigitte: [00:06:00] So this is, you know, the, what I call the topic du jour, right? Retail media, networks and what's happening with the explosion of retail media. I'm very, pleased to say we're actually ahead of this curve. we are investing in retail media. [00:06:11] We are experimenting, with retail partners and it's an incredibly dynamic area. But you know, what's fascinating about it is it gives you closed loops. Sales, right? You can really go from attention to consideration to discovery, and you can basically close the loop and see, did what you do actually impact the bottom line or that final moment of truth? [00:06:34] So that's exciting. But I do want to say that even with the explosion of retail media, we are brand building for the long term, which means we have to think about how retail media works and plays in the larger holistic media planning process. So you really need to think about how you're growing your brand long term and not just on one person's retail media network. [00:06:56] Damian: That's interesting. [00:06:57] Ilyse: To what extent would you say it's like a [00:07:00] game changer for CPTs? I think it [00:07:02] Brigitte: I think it is. I think that it's got all this buzz for a reason, right? And I think it's because we can start to see closed loop sales attribution in ways that are much more difficult to track elsewhere. and you can really partner with retailers who are getting more and more sophisticated about their data sets and how they partner with brands and manufacturers to build businesses. [00:07:25] So in many ways, it can absolutely be a win win situation. but you also have to think about your brand long term and make sure you're not only looking to invest in one place or with one retailer. So we're learning a lot. We've got great partnerships with our retailers. They're leaning in. We're leaning in. [00:07:42] So it's an exciting time. [00:07:44] Ilyse: Is it helping to drive more, say, direct to consumer campaigns? And does Colgate Palmolive have any of those coming up or any successful ones under their belts as it is? [00:07:56] Brigitte: I think we've definitely, we're still in that experimenting stage. We're definitely [00:08:00] learning. but yeah, we have a strategic eye towards how we're going to do this and how we're going to make sure that we get to really drive traffic to our brands. and make sure that also our data gets smarter and more enriched as we go. [00:08:12] The whole point is to basically. Do for the consumer, meet their needs and meet them where they are and do what they need. And as you partner with your retailers, if you're both with that mindset, you generally make smarter decisions with your data. You mentioned, [00:08:25] Damian: you mentioned, you know, meeting the consumer where they are and also about the different nuances of brand building across all the different touch points. [00:08:34] I know that e commerce is growing. There's a lot of talk about the importance of, commerce advertising, e commerce strategy, and how that engages the consumer. But that also impacts how creative rolls out in the end stage. is that something that's part of your consideration under your remit as a, as somebody who's transforming digital marketing for Colgate. [00:09:14] Brigitte: And the most fascinating thing about content today is it's truly being what I call atomized. You just need more of it faster all the time. You need to create it with velocity. and I always talk about the three V's volume, velocity and variety of content. You need that. So our team equally is trying to make sure we have the technology underpinnings and the infrastructure, to get content deployed at scale. [00:09:39] So that means using dams, digital asset management systems really well across our global organization. And that means, 200 countries and territories. It's no small project. And then really working on making sure it's content that is good. So first it's having it and deploying it correctly. [00:09:59] Then it's [00:10:00] making sure it's good content and good creative. So partners of ours that are really helping us score creative with AI and ML. So we really do know that it's tagged correctly, but that it's actually scored to win, and it's AB tested. [00:10:14] So all of those things are creating a sophistication now in our creative and content wheelhouse that allow us to get where we want to go. What you said, which sounds so easy. Content in the right place at the right time. Yeah, [00:10:25] Damian: how are you adapting your approaches across all these channels that you're talking about across, including the physical store? [00:10:33] Brigitte: So I think it's less about adapting. I think what we're doing is we're retrenching. We are making sure that we understand what is driving these categories. for consumers to begin with. So that means really good consumer decision journeys, studying those, making sure we have a very thorough grasp of the insights and the people centricity around those insights about why people are coming in, why people [00:11:00] are leaving, what they're looking for when they're there. [00:11:02] So if you think about it, you're retrenching into what I call good old fashioned consumer insights. And you're, but you're doing it in a new, way. You're doing quant data, qual data, you're doing digital data, you're doing social sentiment, you're getting an understanding of what's really happening. [00:11:17] And then you're looking to understand what your brand objectives are, or you're responsible for basically strategizing around those to meet the needs of the business. And then you plan your multi touchpoint channel strategy. So there's a lot of work. Diagnostic work that goes on before you ever get into which channel do you want to be on? [00:11:39] what are you trying to get done? it has to be thoughtful because as you know, there's never enough money to go around. and we need to make sure that every dollar we spend to build our brands now to meet both short term goals and long term goals is put in the right place with thoroughness and analytical skills and capabilities and insights. [00:12:00] Ilyse: Now, of ecommerce and retail data, we hear a lot of talk about the collapse of the marketing funnel, that merging, you know, of brand awareness and performance. [00:12:13] Do you have any good metaphors or perhaps models for the way marketing works or should work today? What was the good one that we've heard before, Damian? [00:12:23] Damian: infinity [00:12:24] Brigitte: Yes, the loop. I was going to talk about the loop and not the [00:12:28] Damian: Oh, I don't want to, you know, pre think. You say what comes to mind, what works for [00:12:33] Ilyse: I mean, we've heard, yeah, infinity loop or like black hole even. [00:12:39] Brigitte: So look, I, was trained as a classic brand marketer, and I've worked on digital, for most of the second half of my career, shall I say? So I'm very conscious of, there is a lot to say about the funnel and that it is true, right? The funnel exists for a reason. and it was. [00:12:57] Classified that way because [00:13:00] you have to start from a place of awareness to get to consideration of your brand, to get to purchase, and then to ideally get to loyalty, right? We call that ACPL at Colgate. But I think what's really unique now is you can't just care about awareness. You have to care about getting attention. [00:13:16] And you can't just care about being considered. You have to be in the consideration set. with a lot of different things that affect it now than before. Before it was manufacture a message out. Now, people are reading ratings and reviews. So, as I said earlier on whitening, if they don't read positive ratings and reviews on whitening, I'm going to fall out of the consideration set. [00:13:39] And purchase, used to be fundamentally, the zero moment of truth was at the physical shelf in the store. That's no longer just the case. So the moment of truth can happen anywhere, and on any platform. And, right, it's not just e comm. It's also checking out on, TikTok, and being able to [00:14:00] purchase on social channels. [00:14:02] And that has also changed the mix because a brand now has to exponentially be better and present in all of those places. [00:14:09] but you raised a really good question around how do you think about brand and performance. And I think that they're very different and we, I've seen a lot of studies and I've read a lot about People talking about let's go back to just the basics of brand marketing. [00:14:24] and then there's a lot of people who are just diehards on performance marketing is where it's at, right? It's data driven, it's got KPIs, you can see things working in real time. I think you need a blend of both. I think that what you really have to be doing today, whether you're driving a digital transformation, marketing or a business transformation in general, you need to be balancing all the time. [00:14:46] And for me, it is striking the balance, I think about a seesaw. Really between brand on one side, performance, brand marketing on one side, performance marketing on the other, and instead of one tipping too far, [00:15:00] balancing the two. I think that's how you get to both short and long term brand building. [00:15:04] Damian: perfect. I love that. That's a new one. [00:15:06] Ilyse: Yeah, that's a good one. That's [00:15:06] Brigitte: right, it's not a loop, it's a seesaw. [00:15:10] Ilyse: now, speaking of like the marketing mix, to what extent are digital channels like connected TV and, of course, ad tiers on streaming platforms important to that marketing mix? I know even with like retail now and retail media, it's, as far as, identity and everything, retail and CTV are kind of merging together as well. [00:15:36] as channels that are almost uniquely suited for each other, in a sense, but curious what you have to say about that. Look, [00:15:44] Brigitte: I think media has changed so much and everyone is trying to keep up and make sure that we understand what I call where the eyeballs are going. And I think that CTV specifically is, as you know, um, Growing exponentially. A lot of investment going in that [00:16:00] area. And we are as well experimenting there, and we have a lot of brands who have invested in connected TV because it's more data driven. [00:16:09] It's addressable, it's targeted, and we can see how it performs. And generally, again, we measure our ROIs against all of our touch points and we have found it is very performant. So we will continue to invest there. It's bringing new people into our brands, Hills specifically, pet food for Colgate. We do a lot of CTV and it's, performing really well for them. [00:16:33] So we're really learning how to do what I would call data driven decision making, data driven targeting. and get the measurement that proves that cycles really working for us, and it's been terrific. I mean, Colgate as one of the classic CPGs. That's hundreds of years old. actually recently posted, 9. [00:16:52] 8 percent organic sales growth. So we really are driving the base business with a lot of these new strategies. [00:16:58] Damian: And from your point of view, [00:17:00] I'm assuming that measurement portion is better. Is just the accuracy of the measurement is getting better. The data signals are getting better. Yes, absolutely. But it's also giving [00:17:11] Brigitte: everyone a whole lot more data to have to handle, hygienate, stitch together and master. And that's the complexity in a lot of this as well. And these transformations always have what I call a lot of data exhaust, a lot of data spinoff, and you have to be equipped in your organization to start mastering and managing that kind of data. [00:17:33] Ilyse: What kind of data? Like, where does it go? it sounds like trash you just like have to take out. [00:17:42] Brigitte: So, we are, definitely looking to make sure that we put our data in a data cloud. we are looking at consumer data platforms, CDPs, because we do understand that's a place where we can stitch data together to give us a better view of the consumer. [00:17:56] We're strategizing around, unknown and [00:18:00] known data sets. first party, second party, third party data. So all of those things are coming together, strategically for us to be able to drive data driven marketing. [00:18:14] Damian: upskilling your employees. And this comes at a time when there's a ton of emphasis on AI, you know, as a friend or a foe. So, why is that important to you to place that emphasis on the people who work, in the company? Why is digital upskilling such an important, job, I guess, for you? [00:18:33] Brigitte: So it's the beginning of the whole conversation. there is a need to make sure that all of our employees around the world have access to continuous improvement and upskilling and learning. And so as we drove a digital transformation, we needed to bring everybody along with the journey. But nobody can come along if they don't understand some of the basics and the principles, not just the why of what we're doing, but the what it means. [00:18:58] So Colgate Palmolive [00:19:00] invested a lot of time and money into upscaling its own employees. And then we did, fun stuff. We badged people who took X amount of courses. we allowed them to post that on LinkedIn, because they should be proud of upscaling themselves. And it's really good for their careers and their own self development. [00:19:17] But it's also a dynamic for creating change, right? Because as you learn more, you can actually make different decisions Transcribed Act differently. Ask the right questions. Push your teams to make sure we are competing and marketing in a digital age effectively for our brands. So upskilling was everything for us. [00:19:35] and it's really also about Colgate's belief that we should invest back in our employees. this is about raising all boats. So as I also drove a digital transformation, I recruited a lot of talent into Colgate Palmolive, but equally important to all of us was upskilling the teams that we had. [00:19:52] It's reassuring to hear at a time [00:19:54] Damian: a time when, you know, there's all this chat about AI, but it's nice to hear. [00:19:57] Damian: And [00:20:00] that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. We'll be back next week, so stay tuned. [00:20:04] Ilyse: The Current Podcast's theme is by Love Caliber. The current team includes Cat Fessy and Sydney Cairns. [00:20:11] Damian: And remember, I'm Damian. [00:20:13] Ilyse: I'm Ilyse. [00:20:14] Damian: And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.…

The Current Podcast

1
Reuters and SAS on trusting the brand and publisher relationship 21:01

22 weeks geleden21:01

21:01

Josef Najm, director of programmatic and partnerships at Thomson Reuters, and Mibbie Plouvier, head of global programmatic strategy at SAS, join The Current Podcast to describe how their partnership has evolved and how trust plays an important part in that evolution. Episode Transcript Please note, this transcript may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio. [00:00:00] Ilyse: I'm Ilyse Liffreing, and welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. This week, we're excited to be joined by two guests. Joseph Najim, Director of Programmatic and Partnerships at Reuters, And Mivi Plouvier, Head of Programmatic at software company SAS. [00:00:17] Ilyse: Together we'll explore the publisher and advertiser dynamic at a time when some advertisers remain cautious about appearing alongside certain types of news. The business model for news is under pressure and publishers are looking for better ways to monetize their journalism with effective ads. We'll dive into why things may be changing for the better. [00:00:36] Recent research indicates that it's safer for brands to advertise next to quality journalism, regardless of the news topic. Reuters, in 1851 and owned by Thomson Reuters, is one of the world's largest publishers, with journalists in over 200 locations writing in 16 different languages. SAS sits at the intersection of data [00:01:00] and AI. [00:01:01] Delivering analytical insights to brands. We kick off things with Joseph and Miby describing how they first met and how their partnership has evolved since then. [00:01:11] Ilyse: It's so great to have you here today. First off, how did you first meet and how would you describe how your partnership has evolved? [00:01:20] Joseph: Great. Thank you so much for having us. It's a pleasure to be here. maybe and I met about five years ago when I joined Reuters coming from the buy side, I was just leaving a stint at Diageo and, coming in as the programmatic sales specialist at the time, maybe was working in Paris and she was, I believe, the global programmatic lead and everyone was just like, “Hey, programmatic guy, this is a programmatic person.” [00:01:41] I think you should connect with them. And at the time, we were doing some business with SAS, or maybe a little bit. And hearing that she was from Paris. and also knowing that I had worked at L'Oreal. I wanted to connect with her from like a French connection perspective and also knowing that she was American. [00:01:55] So I shot her an email reaching out and asking her some questions like how things were going. [00:02:00] Mibbie: It was a fun connection. because I was new to Paris. And Joseph reached out and was telling me all these fun, French antidotes of how Parisians and French people are more like coconuts, and Americans are more like peaches. And it was a great analogy to start the intro, but we've had a great relationship [00:02:17] Joseph has been resilient and calling on our business and the more in trust we built up, the greater the partnership has become and we've been able to do some really great things together. [00:02:27] Ilyse: guess it is like a pretty small world programmatic, [00:02:33] Ilyse: so it's no secret that the publishing industry is under quite a lot of pressure along with the eventual death of cookies. One issue publishers continue to come across are brands avoiding advertising on news for concerns around brand safety. [00:02:49] Now, these concerns have been challenged as of a May study from Stagwell that found that even ads next to hot button topics performed as effectively as those appearing next to [00:03:00] news, like sports and entertainment. Can you give us some context around what you're seeing on this topic? [00:03:07] Joseph: Yes, this is a very important topic, and being at Reuters now for five years, I've had the opportunity to see a lot of different brand briefs and questions that come in around [00:03:17] how can we partner together? And in 2020, this kind of all came to a head when COVID and the pandemic took place. So what we found was, a lot of advertisers turn to the solutions that they have around. Advertising, ad tech platform, blocking tools like keyword lists, pre bid filters, monitoring tags, blocking tags, blocking words like COVID, China, Wuhan. [00:03:38] And then it just precipitated after that. and almost The spiral effect because the news cycle and [00:03:42] the realities of that was happening continued. So, just in the year of 2020, so much happened. whether it was George Floyd's murder, the beginning of the Black Lives Matter. movement. the, the election, as well. A lot of people forget the election took place there, too. And now, four years later, history is continuing in this really [00:04:00] real time. Just to kind of put it into a global perspective, two thirds of the world's democratic populations are going to the polls. this year, not just the U S and a lot of people just think it's the U S, but really important countries like Taiwan, for example. and we're covering that. and we're also covering two global world conflicts. Israel and Gaza, as well as Russia and Ukraine. [00:04:18] when we're doing all this, it costs a lot of money and it's important to find brand partners that are willing, to support trusted journalism and at the same time understand that when they're partnering with news publishers, that audience that they're reaching is a really important audience, It's an attentive audience, an audience that's willing to engage. [00:04:37] I always like to think back, like, when the pandemic happened, where did we all turn? We turned to the news. And I'm really appreciative of a lot of these studies that are coming out with Stagwell, for example, but even going back to 2020, released this Trust HALO report, 84 percent of consumers had a positive or neutral impact when they saw an ad adjacent to a trusted source. And I fast forward to now and folks are talking about Gen z audience and trying to reach [00:05:00] that audience. Gen Z cares about the facts. They care about trust. So, finding partnership with SAS and being able to present this audience and showing that you can have ad adjacency next to the hard news and reach that audience has been leading to successful business outcomes for both of us. [00:05:14] And It's really been great partnering with Mibbie on those activations. [00:05:18] Mibbie: and then from our perspective, I'd say I think it's easy to find comfort in blocking certain words. but. What we like to do is partner with trusted news sources and award winning news sources because we know that no matter what news they're reporting upon, our brand is going to be safe around it. And we know that we're [00:05:35] going to be okay, no matter what the news is. And I think with the current news cycle and how constant it is, you could almost just go down a rabbit hole of blocking everything. So from our perspective, it was let's partner with key publishers, that we can trust and then we don't have to worry as much about trying to continue to block things or worry about. Being somewhere we don't want to be. [00:05:55] Ilyse: and on that point though, even like the bad news, [00:05:59] I don't think it, [00:06:00] it doesn't hurt your brand as research has shown. and brands are still very fearful about that. Was that your original, like, hesitancy in advertising or? It Okay. [00:06:12] Mibbie: it's, we take the security and knowing how, brands how we're going to be around the right kind of content and Reuters reports on the news in a very fair way. So for us, even if it's bad news, we're okay with being there. [00:06:26] it took a while to get there internally, but that was several years ago and I think it was around COVID when everybody was a little fearful of the news, but we're very confident with the partners we have. and for us, it was also how can we make these things happen programmatically. Because [00:06:43] we can buy things a lot easier. and more smoothly if it's through our platforms. So that was, Reuters was very good about helping us out in that sense too. Yeah, [00:06:51] Joseph: I think, it goes back to the consultative approach. [00:06:53] when I first presented to SAS and to maybe, in team. It was always with the thinking of, okay, [00:07:00] culture. Just like Reuters. We have a history. They have a history of innovation too. And at the end of the day, as maybe said, the fairness of how we go to report that unbiased nature, it really creates, and fosters an environment for [00:07:12] Trust with the audience, trust with the content. So when they have a trusted message, that they're really trying to deliver to that audience. we just knew that it was going to be a perfect synergy between the two. so I really never had. concerns, but I will say, and this is the importance of kind of stepping in and having that partnership with that publisher partner, that news publisher partner. [00:07:30] If the situation gets a little bit out of control, from a hard news perspective, it's important for the news publisher to step in and say, hey, maybe we don't run this campaign right now, but we will come back and we'll make sure that the creative message is appropriate to what's taking place, but also at the same time, hey, we're going to, we're going to protect your brand. [00:07:47] And I think in some cases, we're you know, it happened, for example, with Applebee's, running against the CNN, ad when, I think it was Russia and ukraine, combat was starting to happen. [00:07:57] And, what came from it was some rhetoric [00:08:00] around, you know, we don't want to be around that content. and why, could that have been shut off? And I don't know the full schema behind it, but I really do think it wasn't the intention for CNN to run an Applebee's ads there. [00:08:11] But that ad and went to supporting journalism and supporting that, that moment in time that if people a lot of people were looking at, [00:08:16] And my hope is, like, a brand like Apple Lee's, we'll find a way to come back to running on news again and not say, Hey, we're gonna shut it down and continue not running there. [00:08:25] Ilyse: saying, hey, we're to shut it down and continue. Yeah, I do think [00:08:47] Joseph: Yeah, so I do think there's a little bit of foundation of a fear strategy here, and I think that strategy unfortunately comes from, the fear of the screenshot, [00:08:57] for example, and what that might lead to. [00:09:00] and, when it comes to exclusion lists, I think one of the funniest things I recently heard was a certain agency had an exclusion list Or their exclusion list, which kind of speaks to a problem in itself, where if you're applying words like people's beliefs, religions, communities, whole countries, et cetera, you really run into a situation where Is that appropriate? [00:09:21] For your media campaigns, and your paid campaigns? to me, understanding that brand, and like doing my research when I go to pitch, it's recognizing what is in your keywords doesn't really reflect what your brand is trying to promote from a communication style as well. but I think maybe he has some specifics if you want to share from your side. [00:09:38] we've been chatting about this a little bit, but they're pretty good. They're relevant to the French culture as well. [00:09:43] Mibbie: well. Yeah, I think it's, lose a lot of context when you block keywords. And at some point, when Notre Dame. you know, was on fire and burning. A lot of people were blocking Paris. [00:09:54] They were blocking fire. and now if you don't go back and revisit those lists and you continue to just have. [00:09:59] these long [00:10:00] lists of blocks, you're missing out on Olympics coverage. With the Olympic torch, with the flame, with even the Paris coverage. So there's a lot that if it's not completely maintained, I think it's a hard kind of road to continue to go down because you, there's a never ending way to go if you keep blocking and blocking. [00:10:17] So I think that's where you should go more, the curvation route. And that's the route we've gone is to. Curate our sites, curate who we're working with, and so then it's not as fearful, and you don't get that email to your CEO, which had happened, and it comes down to you, if you're at the screenshot, and then you have to say, that's a good point. [00:10:33] Why are we here? Why are we running there? [00:10:34] so it, sometimes it says hard lessons that make you rethink how you're blocking things. and the approach you're going to have [00:10:41] Joseph: want to bring up AI here because, in a sense, I feel like potentially it could help eventually with, something like keywords. Maybe with marketers, maybe it's a chance to like, actually use it to run through keywords really fast and see if it's, actually gonna [00:11:00] actually with terms that aren't like several years outdated or something like that. [00:11:05] Ilyse: what do you think? [00:11:07] Mibbie: I think it's only going to help our business and help speed the process to your point of going through those massive lists and staying active with what's constantly changing like the news. So I only think it's going to benefit us, but I think AI in general across the programmatic landscape is going to be a benefit instead of more of a hindrance that some people might think it might be. [00:11:29] Joseph: Yeah, a AI is unique because there's generative AI and then there's AI. And I think in the programmatic space, we've been playing with AI a lot. like Machine learning, algorithms, the ability to, target the person, right place, right time, right message, [00:11:41] that's all AI. And I think the tools that publishers are now getting, that maybe they weren't always accustomed to having, or the ease of being able to, check things, or recategorize things or work with their product leads to say, Hey, what is happening here in the bid stream? That's going to come out more to make a cleaner path, [00:12:00] and make sure that the buy side is really saying, Okay, let's triage it, maybe. [00:12:03] Let's say, okay, if this is Reuters, and a trusted brand, and good to go. But okay, next word that pops up, Okay, maybe it's related to this, but because Reuters, still okay. I don't think those solutions exist. [00:12:14] They're A little bit more potential blankets, but with AI you have to understand the risks too. And I think in a gen AI world, working at a news publisher, it's also really important to understand like I sit on the commercial side. [00:12:25] So my uses of AI and generative AI are going to, be different than the editorial team. [00:12:30] And it's important to make sure this is anyone that's on the new side like what is your AI and gen AI policies because you don't want there to be conflict with your editorial team and commercial team. But you do want to promote. innovation at the same time. [00:12:43] Ilyse: now I want to talk a little bit about the campaign that you actually ran, and that you pushed through all that hesitancy for, and then maybe if you could share some of the results you saw from that. [00:12:56] Mibbie: so we've been doing a lot of great testing with Reuters, [00:13:00] so the baseball campaign was a great example because we owned all their coverage of the World Series, which was great for us as a brand to know that. We're there all the way through the end, and it was a good series. But then we've also been doing some testing with Reuters with linked in. So they've been contextually making videos for us around a I specifically in our ads are surrounding that, and we've seen, massive increase in our click through rate, exceeding benchmarks, great view through completion. So it's partnering, in very smart ways And being able to test together that I think we've seen. a lot of great success. and we're also running on their YouTube. channel. So another great way to keep our ads in a brand safe environment on Reuters YouTube instead of all over the place how YouTube can be. So that was a new strategy that we tested together as well. [00:13:45] And we also had audio with Alexa and Google Home. So, when you ask Google Home what the news is for the day. our ad would run before that. And that was a great, Great way of just getting our brand out there and getting some more awareness of who we are. And The great point of that too is [00:14:00] we were able to buy that programmatically. So a lot of these things that necessarily some publishers wouldn't let us buy programmatically. we were able to run with Reuters programmatically, so that made things a lot more smoother. [00:14:10] Joseph: Because of Miby's ad tech stack, we have the ability to front the costs via the impression delivery and the cost per day for an activation. And then, as a publisher, behind The scenes, you just have to work. through your finance team to how you're going to fund those projects and support the teams. But The LinkedIn Wire program. It's a really great success story of how you can combine really great content from a news publisher, and this is all editorial content. So nothing was created bespoke It was just around the same coverage that our editorial teams would be doing for AI. The message that maybe was trying to deliver and SAS team was trying to deliver plus the LinkedIn data that was tied to it as well And All of those things, and I think this also comes into Challenging your partner is It came to a pretty high CPM and costs, but It's the old adage, of kind of, what you get what you pay for And I think the return and what they [00:15:00] saw in the engagement And how it compared was really great. And What I also like about being at a publisher for five years but also having this ad tech background is the way I approach a partner like sass is, hey, we're omni channel. Like you think omni channel and, infinite places, but you could work with one partner in an omni channel approach, and this is very much that and some. So, it's been really great partnering with Vivian sass to really test these different things and be innovative. It's fun. [00:15:24] Ilyse: finally, to both of you, are you optimistic that news publishers are on the right track to fund, oh, Are you optimistic that news publishers are on the right track to fund journalism at this moment? [00:15:42] Joseph: There's a lot That's being done in the right way in the smart way. But it's also [00:15:47] important to, take stock of all the different revenue streams. So, subscriptions is very big. Diversification for news publishers. is very big gamification, right? All these different platforms. whether it be integrating [00:16:00] new, Sports solutions. or Content that's, again, related to lifestyle. But not every news publisher is built And runs their business in the same way. So it's important to recognize even the local hub news publisher who's covering the beat of something that's taking place. They're at risk to their risk of funding. And there's like this slippery slope where when it hits them, those impacts might not be felt when I'm living in New York City or in [00:16:26] other places. But those local communities, So, I think the onus is on this industry of how we can get back out there. And There are definitely ad tech companies are trying to do that and funnel those dollars there. And You see even the promotion of like new technologies with that. Trade Desk and Adfuntus Media, which hopefully will drive those revenues to those smaller news publishers. [00:16:48] But, you know, at the same time, we're challenged. Whether it's ads, coming from brands, but then even certain algorithm changes that are impacting business lines that had seven figure revenue streams. You're seeing it across [00:17:00] the board. So, I think the stress is real. I think The stress is real for a lot of people. But it's important that, you know, we keep innovating and finding brand partners like SAS to come to the table to speak about how we can is good and you can find opportunity in hitting that audience and driving ROI and driving performance. [00:17:17] That will only help. and hopefully it trickles down to the small guys too. [00:17:23] Ilyse: Joseph, what would you tell marketers who say it's not a brand issue? what would you tell marketers who say it's not a brand safety issue, but more that their audience just isn't there? [00:17:40] That's a lot of, young readers, Gen Z ears are finding their news on TikTok and only TikTok. what would you say to them? I know it like can lion, for instance, a few months ago, McDonald's CMO. for instance, said that, [00:17:56] get our audience there and we'll bring [00:18:00] back the money. We'll put the money there. [00:18:03] Joseph: No, it's a great question, and I don't think they're wrong. I do think, however, the communication is not there, and, the insight that the Gen Z audience, whether it be Gen Z adults or younger Gen Z, are getting their information. from TikTok is very accurate. we've done that same report, at the Reuters Institute, which partners with Oxford, released that same study last year, and the new results are going to come out soon, to see how those channels are resonating with younger audiences. [00:18:27] But, I asked a simple question, right? Like when the pandemic happened, where did people go? They went to news sites. They went to understand and get facts and information to inform the decisions that they were making, whether it be a mom who's worried about her children and going to school or the professional and the markets and how it's being affected. [00:18:45] Now, Gen Z, just because they go to TikTok first doesn't mean they stop there. I'm sure they have their trusted sources. And I think the challenge is Hey, brands. [00:18:53] You're only giving me 20 minutes to pitch, and it's very transactional right now when it comes to display ads [00:19:00] and video ads, audio ads, whatever it might be. Where's the opportunity to be consultative? Give us that platform. Let us have that. discourse. because Right now, the discourse that comes up is, we're just like, a no news. I don't think that's the case. If you ask any brand like, no, we support news. So how do we get them from saying, yes, we support news, but to, yes, we support news [00:19:19] and the end is that should be filled in by us. How are we going to do something that's a little bit more innovative more creative to get them back into supporting that platform, But we all have the data to show those audiences are there, do we have the platform, however, to share that insight with them? That's something that needs to be rebuilt a little bit. And I think it's coming. there, though. And I think the events that happened in Cannes and the different studies that came out and rolled out are only going to help. And I really do appreciate that, that feedback. But, sitting as a challenger in that room, it's important to challenge. [00:19:51] Joseph: It's very easy to say no, someone, no to someone who's like a friend. And getting that kind of feedback and going back and forth, that's good. That's where the discourse started. [00:19:59] Ilyse: [00:20:00] Now, when it comes to advertising on news, what is the approach when it comes to a B2B company like SAS versus B2C or even D2C? How is it different? [00:20:12] Mibbie: I think we just have to look at what we're trying to advertise and get our, awareness out there about, and we're selling a very high end software and for us, that relationship of. premiumness with publishers. and having that there. We're not chasing cheap clicks because we have a very long sales cycle. So when it comes to B2C, that somebody's going to see those shoes and go buy them, it's very different than making a long term decision to purchase the software. [00:20:38] So for us, we want to have that consistency with the brands and longevity more so than being kind of all over the place searching those cheap clicks or cheap impressions. [00:20:47] so We pay a little more just to to get that consistency, consistency to get that frequency, but also, we have to think about sales cycles. And So ours is very long, nine months to a year. So long enough to have a baby. so we really have to have that consistency [00:21:00] right of being in the same place and having that consistent message. [00:21:04] Ilyse: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. [00:21:06] Damian: We'll be back next week, so stay tuned. [00:21:09] Ilyse: The Current Podcast's theme is by Love Caliber. The current team includes Kat Vesce and Sydney Cairns. [00:21:16] Damian: And remember, I'm Damian. [00:21:18] Ilyse: I'm Ilyse. [00:21:19] Damian: And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.…

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