Episode 262 – Unstoppable Nonprofit Leader with Chris Blum

Unstoppable Mindset

Chris Blum is the executive director of the Heartland Cancer Foundation in Lincoln Nebraska. Chris joined the foundation after a 25-year career as a professional in the Boy Scouts organization and then working three years for the Nebraska Safety Council. Chris tells us that he is strictly Nebraska born and bred. During his time as a Boy Scout professional, he did work elsewhere, but all roads eventually brought him back to Lincoln. He left scouting when the organization wanted him to move elsewhere to assume another position. It was fun speaking with a nonprofit expert and professional. We talked about a number of issues faced by the not-for-profit world, and we even talked about the differences between for profit sales and not for profit fundraising. Chris brings lots of insights to our conversation. For this being his first podcast appearance, he did quite well, and I think you will like what he had to say. At the end, of course, he gave information about how people can support the Heartland Cancer Foundation. About the Guest: Chris Blum joined the Heartland Cancer Foundation in August of 2022. Chris has 30 years of non-profit leadership experience. He has spent his career making every team better and every company or organization more efficient and more profitable. Chris is skilled at recruiting people with talents and skills which compliment his to make the organization stronger. Here in Nebraska, he has served as the Business Development Manager for the Nebraska Safety Council, the Chief Philanthropy Officer for the Nebraska Children’s Home Society, and the Scout Executive/CEO for the Cornhusker Council, Boy Scouts of America. He served in a variety of positions during a 25-year Boy Scout career with assignments in South Dakota, Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio, and Texas. Chris has a bachelor’s degree in public relations from Northwest Missouri State University. Chris provides strategic and professional leadership for all development and operational efforts of the HCF. He works with volunteers and other stakeholders to prospect, cultivate, and solicit support for growing HCF programs by leveraging all available resources. Chris’ professional goals are to develop long-term relationships with donors, friends, and community partners by deeply engaging them to realize their charitable goals and maximize their gifts of time, talent, and treasure to HCF. Chris and his wife Lori are Nebraska natives (Omaha and Wahoo), they have a son, CJ, who attends Mickle Middle School. Chris have been active in Rotary, and as a Cub Scout Den Leader, and currently coaches Junior High Cross Country and Track for St. John’s Catholic School. Ways to connect with Chris: https://heartlandcancerfoundation.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=cfbc6e1709361a145ed40d367&id=d94fe9ca05&e=9ea37134d3 https://heartlandcancerfoundation.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=cfbc6e1709361a145ed40d367&id=01db9189e7&e=9ea37134d3 https://heartlandcancerfoundation.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=cfbc6e1709361a145ed40d367&id=c4ffa1a2af&e=9ea37134d3 https://heartlandcancerfoundation.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=cfbc6e1709361a145ed40d367&id=1a81f3f0cb&e=9ea37134d3 https://heartlandcancerfoundation.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=cfbc6e1709361a145ed40d367&id=0112187c95&e=9ea37134d3 https://heartlandcancerfoundation.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=cfbc6e1709361a145ed40d367&id=60e930e34a&e=9ea37134d3 About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Hi and welcome wherever you happen to be to unstoppable mindset, where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Unexpected is always fun, and it's what we mostly do on unstoppable mindset. But I'm really glad you're here, and I want to welcome our guest today, Chris Blum, who is the Executive Director of the heartland Cancer Foundation. He's going to tell us about that and a lot of other stuff. And I know, Chris, you had a long stint in doing things in the boy scouts, and having been in scouting and and risen to the rank of Eagle with vigil in the Order of the Arrow, I'm very familiar with scouting as well, so we've got lots to talk about, and I want to welcome you and to unstoppable mindset and again, thank you for being Chris Blum ** 02:02 here. Yeah, Michael, thanks for having me. So it's pleasure. Michael Hingson ** 02:07 This is Chris's first podcast, so we'll try to be nice, but thanks for doing this. Why don't we start by maybe talking about the early Chris, growing up and all that, and kind of what, what, what drove you, what you learned, and anything else that you want to tell us about the earlier Chris Chris Blum ** 02:28 Sure. Well, hey, I'm Midwest boy. I grew up in Omaha Nebraska. Council Bluffs, Iowa. If you know anything about Omaha Nebraska, you're familiar with the College World Series, so yeah, I was Yeah. Grew up average milk. Middle class family. Have two parents, one sister, two dogs. You know, lived in Omaha for seven years, and then both my parents were working in Council Bluffs Iowa, so we moved across the river and actually moved to the country because living on a gravel road went from city streets with sidewalks and a park right across the street to to a gravel road with eight houses on it and ended up going to high school at Council Bluffs Lewis Central. Played golf and ran cross country. Was very active in our East Side Christian Church and and I went to Northwest Missouri State University in Maryville, Missouri, thought I thought I wanted a career in broadcasting, so I did some work on the radio station and the TV station there in at school. Thought maybe I wanted to go into sports management. So my first job out of college was with a summer collegiate baseball team in St Joseph Missouri, the St Joseph Cardinals had a lot of fun working in a minor league baseball setting, but couldn't make any money, and didn't like spending my whole summer at the ballpark because I didn't get a chance to play Golf or do a lot of other things, and then an opportunity presented itself to go to work for the Boy Scouts of America in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. And having grown up in scouting, I thought, hey, this might be something that I'd be good at, and that that career lasted 25 years, took me to from South Dakota to Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio, Texas, and then back here to Lincoln, Nebraska, my wife's Nebraska native from Wahoo, and I'm from, as I mentioned earlier, Omaha, so we're. Like, hey, this is a great opportunity to come back home. All of our family is between Council, bluffs, wahoo and Lincoln. So we had, we've got 15 nieces and nephews. I think we got 15. I might be off on the count, but thought it'd be a good opportunity to put down some roots and stop moving all over the country and and then that has led me to to the heartland Cancer Foundation. Michael Hingson ** 05:32 So when did you leave the scouts? From a professional standpoint, Chris Blum ** 05:38 left the scouts in 2019 February, 2019 and then had a spent a couple years at The Nebraska Safety Council here in Lincoln, doing some business development and some marketing, helping them as a nonprofit work to keep keep the workers safe through OSHA trainings, we also had some driver ed programs for teaching teenagers how to drive safely and effectively. And then we also had a wellness component to make sure that the the employees of of our companies, you know whether they be manufacturing or in the desk, the office employees making sure that they're taking care of themselves, physically and mentally. You know little things like drinking enough water, getting up and stretching every few hours, having a stand up desk so that you, you don't spend eight hours a day sitting you and yeah. And had two years there, and then an opportunity to present itself, to come, come work for the Heartland Cancer Foundation. And so in in August of 2022, I came on board with the with the heartland Cancer Foundation. So Michael Hingson ** 07:04 being with the scouts for 25 years, what prompted you to leave and go elsewhere? Chris Blum ** 07:12 The biggest, the biggest thing was that they were asking me to move again. Oh, I, I had. They're no fun. Yes, set up roots here in Lincoln early on in my career. When you're single, it's easy to move every three or four years, even when you're newly married and you and your spouse don't have kids, it's Hey, it's kind of fun, a new adventure. But then when you realize your spouse has to give up her career and start all over and and you realize that the the raise that you got gets wiped out because your household income gets cut in half, and then you got to start all over with, you know, finding finding a gym to go to, Finding the grocery store, you know, meeting the neighbors finding, you know, the new house that you just moved into. Where's, where's the water shut off, where's the, you know, where's all the stuff I was used to, yeah. And so we had made the decision when we had moved to Lincoln, was that if, if we decided that the Boy Scouts wasn't going to work out for us. Could we stay in Lincoln? And again, we were around family. We had started to put down roots. My son had just started, you know, was into school and like, Look, I'm not uprooting all of this. And decided, you know, there's, there's an opportunity to do, do other things that I can do, and be very successful professionally and personally. And chose to, chose to leave the Boy Scouts. Michael Hingson ** 08:58 Do you still have family in Omaha, Yes, yep, and that's not very far away. Chris Blum ** 09:04 Nope. My mom and sister live actually in Council Bluffs. I've got an aunt that lives in Bellevue, which is a suburb of Omaha. And then my wife's got brothers and sisters, and I'll miss that. Count up, she's got seven brothers and sisters in Wahoo and and Lincoln. So we're all we're all right here. So, yeah, it's, Michael Hingson ** 09:33 it is it is tough to move. And I know my wife passed away in November of 2022, and people started asking me after she passed, well, are you going to move because you've got that big house? And as as I love to say to people, first of all, moving is incredibly stressful, especially when you've been somewhere for a while. But. For me, I pay under 200 I pay under $2,000 a month for principal, interest, tax and insurance. Why would I move? It'd be costing me any a bunch more money to move anywhere. So sure. And the house is seven years old, so it's built to all the codes and solar and all that. So there's a lot to be said for being content with where you are. So I'm with you. I know that I've spent time in Lincoln and worked with the Department of Rehabilitation back there and then across the state somewhat. I have a former geometry teacher, Dick herbalsheimer, who was my sophomore geometry teacher. He now lives in Sydney, Nebraska. He kind of always wanted to move back there, even though he was teaching out in Palmdale, but we visited him. He is, what, 87 this year, and we always discuss the fact that he's older than I am, and he keeps telling me, I'm catching up. And I said, Nope, you're always going to be seven years ahead of me. I'm not going to worry about it, or not seven years you're going to be 14 years ahead of me, and I'm not catching up. Sure, that's kind of fun. But I like, I like Nebraska. It's a lot of fun to be there and so on. Well, you and it's interesting to hear what you say about the Safety Council. I haven't spoken at any State Safety Council meetings, but I've spoken at safety and emergency preparedness organization conventions, and had a lot of fun doing it, and really appreciate some of the kinds of things that you're talking about and what you're trying to teach people to do. Because, yeah, if you just sit all day, every day, and in an office at a desk, that's not good for anybody, 11:46 correct? Well, so Michael Hingson ** 11:49 you, you, you went to the Nebraska well, to the heartland Cancer Foundation. Tell me about the foundation, if you would Chris Blum ** 11:58 sure. So the the heartland Cancer Foundation was founded in 2008 by a local group of cancer doctors who, as they were helping their patients and treating their patients, they they saw a need to help them with their their basic expenses, their their car payments, their mortgage, their utilities, and then the the travel expenses to and from treatment. You know, those are, those are expenses that when you get a cancer diagnosis, they don't, they don't stop. You know, they wanted to do something locally for the local patients. You know, raising money for the national organizations for research is is important, but when you're going through treatment and struggling to figure out how to pay your bills, you don't really care about cancer research and funding that leaves the state. So these doctors put together this foundation, and over the past few years, they've just steadily grown it through some special events. We currently provide grants of $750 to cancer patients in Nebraska. You've got to be a resident of Nebraska, you have to be in active treatment, and you have to qualify financially. What we our requirements are, we take the federal poverty guidelines, and we times that by four, and the application process is pretty easy. It's online, or we can actually, we can actually mail a paper copy to a person working with their nurse practitioner or their social worker, the medical staff that they work with they get it filled out. Our turnaround time is about a about a day or two, depending on how, how quick our program director reads it and then, and then we we approve the grant. The The nice thing that I think we offer is we actually pay the bills directly to the mortgage company or the car company or the utility company for the for the patient, so that takes that burden off of them, or their family who's ever might be helping them out throughout the the whole process, if they, if the patient says, Hey, I my biggest need of those four categories is travel expenses to and from treatment, then we will, we'll mail them gas cards to that they can use for their. For their trips. Nebraska, being mostly rural, you know, a lot of our folks are driving outside of Lincoln, you know, 45 minutes an hour into Lincoln for treatment, or if they're in one of our outstanding community towns that we serve, whether it be Beatrice or Grand Island or Hastings, you know, they're, they could be driving, you know, 1520 minutes, you know. And the gas prices the last few years have kind of skyrocketed. So that's been our, our biggest need in the past couple years, to ensure that folks have, have the, have the travel expenses. And again, we we pride ourselves on immediate and practical financial assistance for for local cancer patients. So like I said, as long as you live in in Nebraska and you're in active treatment, you you're eligible, and we've been blessed that we've never turned down a request. So we're, it's something we're we're planning on continuing to a streak with. We hope we'll. We plan on continuing. Michael Hingson ** 16:16 Are the grants one time grants? Or can people receive more than one? Or how does that work? Chris Blum ** 16:20 They can, they can receive one every 12 months. Ah, okay, so, yeah, unfortunately, cancer doesn't usually get fixed in a year, no. So we, we offer, you know, after that 12 month cycle, they can, they can reapply. We also collaborate with other other foundations here in Nebraska, the Hope Foundation, the Grace Foundation, and angels among us is another one where we our patients can help. You know, if they get grants from them, we actually encourage that. We don't, we don't disqualify them because they get grants from somebody else. So, you know, we and we share that. We share those resources with our on our website. Hey, here's some other other areas of needs. Because as as great as the needs are for for cancer patients, our mission that we've stuck to is these are our four categories that we fund, and we'll give you money for their for these four if you need help outside of those four categories, here's some here are some people that you you should reach out to. Michael Hingson ** 17:37 Are there similar organizations in other states, Chris Blum ** 17:42 that is a very good question. I want to say yes, but I I don't know that for sure. I would. I have to believe that there are. I That's probably a something I need to be more aware of. But like I said, most of the stuff we have done has been all in Nebraska, so we are very familiar with the foundations in Nebraska that help. Again, the great thing about Google is we could probably, I could probably Google it more talented to be able to do this while I'm while I'm talking to you, but I don't want to mess mess that up and hit the wrong button and get cut off from the podcast here. Michael Hingson ** 18:29 I know, I know what you're saying. We Chris Blum ** 18:31 can probably Google and like I said, I'm sure there are groups Michael Hingson ** 18:38 in other states well, and there are a lot of different organizations in Nebraska, as you say, what sets the HCF apart? What makes you unique and what you do? What Chris Blum ** 18:50 makes us unique is that we provide the immediate, practical assistance, and it's, it's a quick turnaround time, you know, you're not, you're not applying, and then waiting, you know, you you apply and say, Hey, I need my mortgage paid for. We agree. We start, we start covering that mortgage. You know, that mortgage payment, you know, and and most of our, most of our clients at mortgage payments somewhere between one and three months. And so if we can take that burden off of an individual for that that amount of time, and they can spend now that that one to three months just focusing on healing and not having to worry about, how am I going to pay pay the mortgage this month? You know, we're we have a local, a local board of 12 members. So all our decisions are are made here in Lincoln. We're not we're not having to call somebody in in Dallas. We're not having to call somebody in New York. You know, if, if we have a, if we have something we need to do, we we talk to the board and we. Make a decision. Most of our, majority of our funding, is all raised here in Nebraska. And we do get several, several 1000s of dollars of support from the pharmaceutical companies through some educational programs that we run and why those dollars aren't headquartered here in Nebraska. They all have local, local representatives that live and work here in in Omaha or Lincoln, and that, you know, we're, we're we're based local. We serve local, you know, and our staff all lives here. Fact, our one, our one staff member who works part time for us, she worked at the Beatrice hospital for a time in the intake office. So she she was involved with the patients on a daily basis before she came to workforce. So, yeah, that's, I think that's what makes us unique. And again, we were, we were started by local doctors helping helping local patients. Several of those doctors are still involved. Several other spouses are still involved in our our impact. Guild, um, so I think that's a long winded question. Answer to your to your short question. Michael, sorry about that. Michael Hingson ** 21:27 That's fair. So I'm curious you, you said something that at least prompts a question. So you get funding from some outside sources like pharmaceutical companies and so on. Do they ever try to restrict their funds, or is that part of the message that you send is you can't do that? Yeah, Chris Blum ** 21:46 that's, that's part of our message is that, you know, we, they can't really restrict the the funds. And if they ask to to restrict the funds, we we just say that we're we can't accept them. So again, the four things that we support are mortgage payment, car payment, utilities and then travel expenses. So that's what we ask them to to support. And it's great that you the most of the companies again, because I'm dealing with local reps, they understand what we're doing. And then we can, we can just work, work through there. Well, Michael Hingson ** 22:35 you've spent most, well, pretty much all, of your professional life in the nonprofit world, which, generally speaking, certainly from a financial standpoint, doesn't pay as much as working a lot of times in the corporate world, but you've been very successful at being a leader and building teams and so on. What? What makes you stay in the the nonprofit sector as opposed to going elsewhere. Chris Blum ** 23:01 Oh, good question. I think part of it is in my Gallup strengths. You know, realized I'm a very mission driven individual, a lot of times working in the boy scouts. It, it gave me the the ability to act and operate like an entrepreneur, without the risk I didn't have. You know, there was, there was always a there was always an umbrella there. And so I like the flexibility. I like being able to to help folks. I've never really been a nine to five or so. There's a lot of times meetings, meetings and activities outside of the workday. It's a, it's more of a, it's more of a calling and being able to being able to help folks, is and give back. I think that's why I spent a lot of time with the Boy Scouts, is I knew what it did for me as a kid, and I thought, if I could this, this is my way to help, help give back. Was it the best camper, the best knot tire? I like camping, but I prefer a Marriott, yeah. And so I figured if I could help, you know, raise the money and handle stuff on the back end of things, that that would be something that would be my way of paying it, paying it back or paying it forward. Michael Hingson ** 24:43 I hear you, I, I, I didn't mind going camping. I enjoyed it, but at the same time, it was always a whole lot more fun to stay indoors, as I learned a whole lot later in life. So there's, there's a lot to be said for hotels, but at the. Same time, I never regret the knowledge and all the information that I learned in my years as a scout, including camping and learning how to function in those kinds of environments, whether I choose to do it or not, having the knowledge is also a very helpful thing to to be able to tie yourself to Yes, and so I don't mind it a bit. How what? What caused you to start being a professional Scouter? What was it just a job that came up? Or how did that work out? Chris Blum ** 25:38 Oh, so, yeah, that's an interesting story. Michael Hingson ** 25:43 Love stories. Chris Blum ** 25:45 When I left the so I was working in minor league baseball, as I mentioned earlier, and the season was over. September. I was actually working with the Wichita wranglers double a team in Wichita, Kansas. Season was over early September, and they said, Hey, we love you. We want you to work for us, the internship to be a full time job, but it's not going to start till January. Well, it's September. I, I got a car payment. I, you know, I got, you know, rent. I need to eat. I can't not work for four months. So I moved back to Council Bluffs, Iowa, and I answered an ad in the Omaha World Herald marketing and fundraising professional. Or maybe it was a, I think it was a marketing, public relations and fundraising professional position. Okay, so I go to the address on the paper back in those days, you didn't Google it. You Oh, the address. Okay, get out the road, Michael Hingson ** 26:53 get the Thomas brothers map out. Yeah, and Chris Blum ** 26:57 I showed up at the Boy Scout office. I'm like, Okay, this, this is odd. I didn't know that there was a professional side of scouting, and so I sat down, I interviewed and and they were telling me, you know, here's what you do. You you talk to people, you get a you recruit kids. You gotta raise money. I'm like, oh, that's kind of like sales, sales in minor league baseball, working in the stadium operations department, on putting on camperies, and they're like, Yeah, and you, you're not going to deal too much with kids, you know, you're not, you're not a scout master or a cub, cub scout master or a den leader. You're handling the business side of scouting. Okay, that makes sense. And so I I interviewed in Omaha. And boy scouts have a National Personnel System, so So I was in their system. Omaha didn't have a job. They didn't, they didn't select me for a job. But I got a call from the scout executive in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. The Scout executive is, would be the CEO of the local council or the local franchise. And I talked to him, he's like, Well, I've got a job for you. I need you to come up here and interview and say, Okay, I really, really don't want to drive three hours for an interview unless you're going to give me the job. And he said, Well, I can't enter. I can't give you the job without interviewing. Yeah. I said, Well, we've got a phone. Let's just interview here. And, and we bantered back and forth, and he's finally just said, Well, you just drive up here and take the interview so I can give you the job. Oh, there you go. So drove up and we talked and and he was telling me, he's like, now you're going to, you're, you're going to work 50 to 60 hours a week. Okay, well, that's a lot less than I worked in baseball. So alright. He's like, you're not going to make, make very much money. I I can only pay you $23,000 I'm like, well, that's, that's, you know, 1012, grand more than I made with the baseball team. So where do I sign? And he's like, Well, you're, you're going to cover 11 counties in South Dakota, so there's a lot of driving time. Okay, well, I've driven all over Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas, Iowa, Michael Hingson ** 29:18 and I came here, didn't I? Yeah, I'm like, Chris Blum ** 29:23 Okay, where do, where do I sign? And so I actually had relatives in my I had a aunt and uncle, great aunt and uncle that lived in winter South Dakota, which was going to be one of my, one of my communities that I would be in charge of. So, you know, I'm like, this is like, a no brainer. I think, you know, the good Lord's looking out for me. You know, go going from not having any job to getting a new job with a car and and a raise and benefits and and so, and I ended up working out of my house. So I had a I had an old desk that I, you know, fact, it wasn't even a desk before I got a desk. I had a two saw saw horses and and an old piece of plywood that I used as my desk because I I remembered reading something that Sam Walton, that's how his desk started. Well, if it's good enough for Sam Walton that it worked for me, and the price was right. I, you know, everything was free. So, so I started working for the Boy Scouts, and really, really enjoyed it. My first summer, I was in in charge of a traveling Cub Scout day camp. So we traveled and put on, kind of like a carnival event in all the communities in South Dakota and Minnesota, and I got paid to run around and shoot BB guns and bows and arrows, run around in shorts and a T shirt and, you know? And I'm like, wow, this is pretty fun. And so it never really felt like a job. I found my two, two good things I was really strong at in in scouting, was I was running good at running camps, making sure kids got signed up. Camps were full, they had a good time, and that we turned a profit. And I was really good at raising money. And realized, if you run camps for the Boy Scouts, it's kind of like being in minor league baseball. Your summers, you don't get a lot of time to do anything but, but work and be at Michael Hingson ** 31:28 camp. How tough? Chris Blum ** 31:29 If you raise money, you're always going to have a job. And a lot of times your summers are off, so or you're, you're spending your summers with donors, playing golf, or, you know, going to a ball game or, you know, and so my my skill set translated, you know, Boy Scout councils needed somebody that could relate to donors, raise money, work with marketing and project management. And so my career track with the Boy Scouts, took the the fundraising track and and the development track and and continued to sharpen that skill set, and ended up working for the Boy Scout foundation in Dallas, traveling around the country, working With Boy Scout councils and their and their donors to help figure out how to how to secure gifts of $100,000 to 5 million, and really understanding how to match the donors. Donors passion with the local council's vision, you know, to make sure that you know the donor wanted to give a give money to build a swimming pool, but the council needed a new dining hall, so let's not put a new swimming pool in. Let's figure out how to, how to make a new dining hall work, or find out, you know, does the does the donor really want to do a swimming pool? Or they just thought it was a neat idea, yeah. And so that was, that was kind of how it worked. And I, again, they, they needed local council leadership here in Lincoln as a CEO, and the powers to be at the Boy Scouts thought I'd be a good candidate. So I came here to to Lincoln to interview and and was selected to serve as the scout executive. And, like I said, did that for four years and and enjoyed it, but it when it got to the time that, hey, it's time for you to look at a new job somewhere else, and we want you to start over somewhere else. I think the options they gave me were Pennsylvania and Montana, and they said, why those sound great? Could have come 10 years ago. It would have been a lot easier for me to say, yeah, yeah. So yeah. That's how the kind of the Boy Scout, Boy Scout story started and Michael Hingson ** 33:55 you you equated or mentioned early on about the fact that what they were asking you to do with the Boy Scouts was really like sales and so on. Tell me what, what do you think the differences are? Or really, are there differences between sales and what, what people do in traditional kinds of selling of things and fundraising? And I'll and I'll tell you why I asked the question, because my belief is that they're really the same thing. Obviously, there's a little bit more of a mission component to fundraising than sales, but really are they all that different? Chris Blum ** 34:36 Oh, that's a that's a good question. In fact, one of my, one of my really good friends from my time living in Michigan. Matt Stevens is a professional sales coach with Jerry Weinberg and Associates. He's a Sandler assistant guy and and disciple and very talented and very good. There are a lot of a lot of similarities. I. Um, I, my, my viewpoint is that sales is more of a science fundraising, fundraising is more of an art, but they do intertwine. Yeah, the thing about really good sales people and the representative is both of them. It comes down to relationships, yeah, but with sales, the the best ones are the ones that are disciplined. They they know every day. I'm I'm going to make certain amount of calls, I'm going to talk to a certain amount of people, I'm going to meet with a certain amount of people, and then, and they've got that system in place where there's a follow up, okay, you need to, you need to follow back up this conversation. And so sales, in sales, it's about finding the pain point and getting at what the prospect really needs, and for them to tell you what they really need. Michael Hingson ** 36:04 That's, of course, the real issue is that they need to tell you what they need. And, you know, I I really find that there is a science and an art to sales, because I think the best salespeople are really teachers, they're counselors, and most people don't get that. But I think that's as true for people in the fundraising world. Yeah, there are some differences, but, but I think there, there are, as you said, a lot of similarities, and I think that all too often we miss that and and the best fundraisers and the best salespeople are people who really can dig down and understand or or learn to understand what drives their customer or their donor? Chris Blum ** 36:51 Yes, I agree. And in fundraising, a lot of times, in fundraising, I know early on, it was very transactional. Hey, I've got this golf tournament I'd like you to buy Forza or, you know, we're doing this fundraiser for this, this trinket or or recognition piece. You know, as I, as I grew up and went to work for the foundation, I really learned more about listening, you know, finding out what the donor, you know, asking them to tell their story. Why are, you know, tell me why you why you're involved in scouting. And once they start telling that story, then you start picking up, you know, bits and pieces. The other thing, I think, was fundraising, is if you can take two people and visit with the donor, you increase your odds of success, because you are going to hear something that the other person won't, and you can actually better strategize. And then a colleague of mine that I worked with at the foundation, he told me, he said, if, if you want somebody's opinion, you ask for their money. If you want somebody's money, you ask for their opinion. And it, it sunk in with me that. Well, yeah, if you, if you ask them what they think and how, you know how, how they think something should work. Or you show them the campaign brochure and, like, give me your thoughts on this, they'll lead you down the path. So similar to to salesman, and I know my friend Matt, he drives me crazy because he's always asking he, he always asks me questions. Or, you know, we go out to eat somewhere, we meet somebody, and, you know, 20 questions later, Matt's still having a conversation with a guy. And I'm like, dude, let's go. But he's, he's got that down. He, he asked, you know, fact Sandler, I've got it here on my desk that I think I got from him in one of his trainings. I I snuck was questions that you should, you know, and so, so, yeah, I think it's, they're very much related. And I think, you know, I've learned, you know, I'm, I've brought the sales discipline to the fundraising, and then I've and then some of the again, asking the questions and not not being, not being so much in a rush. I think that's part of the challenges with fundraisers and nonprofits as we are so into I got to get this money, I got to get this sponsorship for this, for this event, or our year end budget. We, you know, we got to get these year end gifts in. And we don't really, you know, we don't really stop and and and take a donor to coffee and just say, hey, thank you. Thanks for what you do for us. Yeah, why do you do what you do for us? And, once we start having those conversations, and we listen and we and we don't listen to and we're not sitting there thinking about what we're going to say next, that's where, you know, the magic happens. That's where the the sale, the. Or you know, you know. And sometimes I think, you know sales, you're selling a product, and we think that that customer needs that product. Well, do we know if we had asked the issue, right, if they need it? And sometimes they don't even know they need it. And and and I've, I sit on that end all the time, I get emails, hey, we can help you raise more money at this event. You know? We can help you with a bigger with a better CRM and, like, no, no, no, you know. And so, yeah, it I think again. Like I said, I've learned a lot from some of the my good friends that are salespeople and very successful. It's about the discipline. Put it in your calendar, you know. And I've actually been on, I was a sale Salesforce disciple for a few years at the foundation, and that was, to me, that was just too rigid, because, like, well, you met with, you met with Bill Smith three weeks ago. Proposal needs to be completed today, and sent like, Well, no, he's he's not ready. Yeah, you know. And so it felt like I was always managing, managing the tasks of the sales force, but, but understood why they were doing it, tickling it. Okay? It forced me to look okay, well, why isn't bill ready? Oh, because I haven't, I haven't found why. Or I haven't, you know, it's been three weeks since I've talked to him. So, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 41:30 there are, there are definite challenges. It's, it is true that that ultimately, you've got to really have the opportunity to step back and look at what the customer wants, or the donor wants, who is, in a sense, the customer. I know the Sandler system is often about pain. You know, well, what pain are you feeling as the person that we're trying to sell to? And can I figure out your pain? And that works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't, but it isn't any different in fundraiser fundraising, the The difference is that you probably don't call it pain. You call it more an issue of what drives me to want to give to this organization or that organization, or what what influenced me to even come there? And it amounts to the same thing, but we we tend to still put things in such rigid terms that we ultimately don't get back down to what is the what is the customer, the donor, or, in your case, the foundation, really need, and then you map a strategy accordingly. Chris Blum ** 42:42 Yeah, and it's, it's really, again, goes back to, you know, I think sometimes in the fundraising world the nonprofit, we think we know why somebody, oh, they, they support us because they come to our golf term, okay, well, do you know why? You know. And a lot of times when you sit and ask, Why can't? Because, you know, definitely on the foundation, well, you know, Dr green asked me to to play in his Foursome, or Dr Nate Green was, was my wife's oncologist. Yeah, I was just gonna say, you know, Dr Dunder is my neighbor. You know, those are the, those are the type of things you know that you know, in my, my year and a half I've been here, I've been finding out, you know, you know, there's a ton of golf tournaments. Why do you, why do you come to our golf tournament? Well, my, my spouse, was a patient, or, you know, the foundation helped my, my uncle, or, you know, and so it's, it's finding that, and, and then the, you know, the question that I think we, we don't ask enough in the nonprofit, is, well, we, if we didn't do the golf tournament, would you still support the organization? You know, do you? Would you still support the mission? Because, from my standpoint, I would love to have somebody just write me the sponsor check, yeah, and not have to worry about, you know, paying for a golf course, and we're paying for, you know, if you put on a gala and you got to, you got to pay for the food, you got to pay for the venue. If we didn't have the gala, would you still write the check, you know? And a lot of times I get it the corporate money. It's easier to to be tied to, to an event because they they work at Mark, they look at it as a marketing or a public, public thing. But I think just again, having that conversation so that, you know, well, they're coming, this is why they're coming to the golf term. This is why they're coming to the Mardi Gras Gala, you know. And again, the challenge with with with nonprofits is that we, a lot of us, do a lot of non special events, and having having a lot of special events. But you know, you're not going to get the same sponsors back every year because the dates not going to align, or the person who wrote the check for that company got promoted or left the company and the new person isn't familiar with you. So I think again, that's a that's a question in the nonprofit world, we we need to ask, but a lot of times we're afraid of asking that, would you write us the check without coming to all the events, or if, if that's the why you're coming, or why you're writing the check is because the event that's that's also important to know, because then you know they're not coming if they're if we don't have this event. And I would guess that most, most supporters of your organization in the event, that's not why they're they're coming but, Michael Hingson ** 45:49 but they do love the personal contact, yes, Chris Blum ** 45:51 yes. And then they love to see the the stuff you know, the the program in action. And they, they like the personal contact and, but yeah, the the special events are very, very time, time intensive to to put on and, and so, yeah, it would be be much easier if we could just have somebody, you know, give the gift, because they support us and come back, you know, you know, come back next time. I can help so Michael Hingson ** 46:28 and maybe if they start out coming because of the events and so on, as given the way you operate, as you gain more of a personal relationship with them, you may find that you can guide some of them away from just needing to come to the event to support the organization, and it may mean that you can get them to the point where they'll be a larger donor because you do the event, but also just because they they buy into what you're doing, And you're able to educate them about that? Yeah, Chris Blum ** 47:02 absolutely. That's, that's where the magic happens is, is after the event, you know, how, how do you follow up? You know, is a thank you, a personal visit, you know, finding out, Hey, why? Why were you there? And, yeah, and we've, you know, we've, we've had some success here at the Foundation with that. We've got. We've got a couple donors. Yeah, they've, they've come to one or two of our events, but yet they, they call us towards the end of end of the year every year, like, hey, what else? What else can we help you with? And sometimes I don't even have to answer, like, we're sending you the check. Use it how you need it. So there you go. And I think a lot of the successful nonprofits around the around the country that they do the exact same thing. It's just with most nonprofits, you're always trying to put 10 pounds of potatoes in a five pound bag, and you literally could work 24/7, and and still be behind. And that's probably the same way in the corporate world. I'm fact, I'm sure it is, you know, and I had a, I had a friend a long time ago. He said, Yeah, faster planes and shorter runways, and that was back in 1993 so could almost say we've got supersonic planes and no runways now, so just how fast things move? The problem with Michael Hingson ** 48:27 all that, though, is that it's not the planes and the runways, it's the roads getting to the airport that tend to slow you down a lot, right? I was reading an article a couple weeks ago all about how efficient, more efficiently. We have become an R with air travel and so on directly, but it's all the things leading up to it that take a lot longer than it used to, and it adds so much more stress in our lives, and that doesn't help either. But you know, with what you're doing, anyone who understands nonprofits and understands the mission of an organization, and buys into it, knows full well the value and the joy in a lot of ways that you get from doing what you do, and the joy of accomplishing a task, and that's probably a little bit different than what happens in a lot of sales environments, although, I would say for me, when I was selling computer products, and I would spend a lot of time talking with prospects about what they want, what they need, And and also making sure that my product was the one that would do what they need. And I had never had qualms about saying, you know, our product's not going to work for you, and here's why. And that always eventually was a very positive thing, because they would call me back at some point. Say, because of everything you taught us, we've got another project, and we know your product will do exactly what we want. So just tell us how much it is. We're not even going to put it out to bid. But that, again, is all in the relationship. And the joy of knowing that you helped someone really solve a problem is super so it is true that it translates into sales, but you got to look for that opportunity, and you got to look for that joy in your own life and what you do. And I think it is emphasized a lot less than looking at and understanding the mission of a nonprofit. Chris Blum ** 50:34 Absolutely, good, Michael Hingson ** 50:36 yeah, which, yeah, which is, was? It's part of the issue, part of the issue. So what does success look like for you? You, you clearly are, I would, I would say successful in what you do and so on. You enjoy what you do. So what is success to you? Chris Blum ** 50:51 Oh, that's, that's an ever, yeah, ever moving. It is moving obstacle. I guess it just depends, I think, from a professional standpoint, at the foundation here, success is making sure we've got, we've got enough money to to never have to say no to a to an applicant, being able to to grow the foundation you know, you know, live, capitalizing on the success of of my predecessors. You know, the board, the previous director, Amy green, and the previous donors that have set us up for for success, continuing that and making sure that, you know, five or 10 years down the road, we've, we're given grants at, you know, $1,500 or 2000 or, you know, we're paying, we're paying everybody's mortgage for a year being able to, you know, and that, that's kind of pie in the sky. But the the success is that, you know, hey, we're able to fund everybody. You know, we are, we're in, we're we're covering every county in Nebraska, you know our when somebody says the heartland Cancer Foundation, they're like, yep, we know what they do. You need to, you need to support them. You need to get involved with them. I think, success wise, personally, you know, make sure that you know my my wife and son know that I don't spend more time at the office than I spend at home. But no, but their understanding is that when I'm in the office, they understand why I'm is because, you know, there's, there's a deadline for one of our special events, or that, you know, what I'm raising money for and engaging the community with is, is having an impact and changing the lives of cancer patients. But when I'm, you know, success looks like when I'm at home, that I'm, I'm present, you know, when I'm, when I'm at CJs baseball game or basketball game, I'm not on my phone, you know, checking emails or texts of people. I'm, if I'm on my phone, I'm taking a video or or a picture of him. You know, when, when we're at, when we travel to one of my wife, Lori's marathon trips, you know, I'm, I'm not working on the laptop. The laptop doesn't even come with me, you know. And you know, my, my role is the support. Okay, get out on the course. Cheer with her, you know. Make sure she gets to the start line on time. Make sure, you know, she gets picked up on time, and I've got, I've got the change of clothes and and the money to pay the for the massage table, if, if needed that. You know, that's my role. I think success on that end, making sure that what I the effort I give at the office, is the effort I give at home. And sometimes that's not easy, Michael Hingson ** 54:06 but, but you do it, which is what is so cool, and you are very volitional about doing that. So Lori's a runner, Chris Blum ** 54:12 yep, yep. She's, she's a marathon runner, half, half marathon runner. I try to be as well. I just my mind can't, can't stay focused for 26 miles. I can stay focused for 13 and and be glad that I'm done with with that part. Michael Hingson ** 54:32 Does she work? Chris Blum ** 54:33 Yeah, she's a, she's a seventh grade school teacher. Oh, cool. And so she's up. She's been a, she's been a school teacher since I married her, and then she she took some time off to run the household when my son was born, our son was born, so she, she was the CEO of the Blum household for nine years, and then she jumped back into the teaching world. Michael Hingson ** 54:58 Now it's a team effort. Yes, Chris Blum ** 55:02 and so, and yeah. And then success for me personally is making sure you know that I'm, you know, staying in relatively good shape and and and being healthy, and, you know, being proactive, you know, with my health and I need to do a better job of watching what I eat. From a healthy standpoint, I love watching cake and cookies and sugar. You know, desserts go into my mouth. But, you know, I like to make sure that I stay in shape through classes at the Y I teach a spinning class to help get help. Help participants start their day off. It's, it's a 530 Tuesday morning. So let's, let's get the day off while most people are sleeping. Let's, let's get the blood flowing. You know, set, set a good, good example for for our other family members who're still home in bed, but get, get yourself off to a to a good start, and just try to keep the body movement we're we're meant to move and and I, I spend a lot of time sitting at my desk, sitting in my car, sitting at, you know, tables, talking to people. So I gotta be up and moving and just making sure that I'm healthy. Because I, you know, want to be able to play golf and want to be able to, you know, survive and snow, yep, do things as I get get older. Michael Hingson ** 56:43 There you go. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received? I'm sure that you've, you know, you had mentors and coaches and people that you've worked with, and a lot of people I'm sure have offered advice. What's the one that sticks out in your brain? Chris Blum ** 57:01 One of my, yeah, one of my first bosses. He told me, always trust your instincts. It seemed like every time I'd ask him a question that I was, you know, or I had a something I was dealing with, trust your instincts. Michael Hingson ** 57:16 Good piece of advice. That's that's always Chris Blum ** 57:18 there. And then a co worker of mine when I was at the Boy Scout Foundation. He, he had a slogan, shut up and do stuff. And I just always thought that that, you know, it's kind of his version of Talk is cheap, you know. And so, yeah, I think trust your instincts. And then the shut up and do stuff always makes me laugh, but it's just something that I just kind of Michael Hingson ** 57:49 remember and make sense. Well, where do you see the nonprofit world going in the next five or 10 years? I mean, we're seeing so many changes in so many things, and everybody is trying to grab a little piece of each of us and so on. Where do you see nonprofits going? Chris Blum ** 58:08 It's it's going to continue to be a challenge. I think the nonprofits need to, need to refocus how we put together strategic plans. I mean, you know, having a three to five year plan is just non realistic anymore. Your your strategic plan is probably six to eight months, and then it's gotta, it's gonna, it's constantly evolving because, you know, the world is changing that that that quickly. I think nonprofits, those that are going to survive and be successful, need to operate more like a business. So many times in the nonprofit world, my experience is when times get tough, they cut back on marketing dollars. They let go of their development staff, which, in the for profit world, that would be like, Well, why are you, you know, if times are tough, you got to sell more so you got to, you know, your salesman. You got to, do, you know, make more sales. You make more product. You don't cut your sales force to in the for profit world. So I think nonprofit wise, we've got to operate. We've got to change our mindset. You know, not only the staff getting out of the scarcity mentality, but also our boards, making sure that our boards understand it's okay to end the year with a with a surplus, because you can use that surplus to put it into an endowment. You can use that surplus to fund cash flow to pay down debt. Having a surplus, you're a winning team. People. People want to be on a winning team. You know, you don't want to recruit new board members and say, Oh yeah, by the way, we're. We got, you know, a debt of this amount, and we don't know how to get out of it's, it's easy to recruit a board member. Hey, we had a we had a significant surplus. We were blessed because we were, you know, we tightened our belt. We were aggressive in fundraising and relationship building. And we've got money in the bank. Our balance sheets positive. So I think again, in five years, the nonprofits that continue to be aggressive and strategic with relationship building and sharing their mission and then operating like a business and not, oh, we don't want to spend money on this. Let's see if we can donate. Get it donated. Well, you're spending all your time and effort to try to get something donated that if you would have just spent the $500 to take care of it already been taken care of, but you just spent your your staff time and energy trying to get it donated, and a lot of times, it ends up costing you more to get it donated than if you would have just wrote the check. Yeah, and I think you know, and I do feel that several foundations are starting to understand that we've got to operate like a business. We don't, you know, because years ago, foundations that you could never put in your proposal that this is going to fund a staff position. You had to call it, you know, program delivery, yeah, and, you know, because nobody wanted to fund overhead. And if your overhead was over, you know, 40% or whatever, you just weren't doing stuff effectively, right? We've got to change. We're changing our the nonprofits that change their messaging to here's your impact. Yes, we have we might have 40% overhead, but we serve 30,000 people. Would you rather do that than have 10% overhead and serve 3000 people? Which impact do you want to make? And you know, the more people you serve, the greater impact that you have. Chances are your your overhead is going to be more and so sharing that message, getting your board to understand that, that it's it's okay to it's okay to budget a five or 6% raise for your staff. You know, well, the industry standard, and you know, in our industry, is three Well, 3% when you're making 150 or $200,000 sounds like a lot. You know, 3% when you're making 50 or $60,000 that's not a whole lot. A six or 7% raise, you know, is, is more impactful at that 50 or $60,000 level, and what you'll keep good quality people, you know it, you know, again, the nonprofit sector is always going to be here again, I think the the ones in five years, the ones that act like a business, that relate to donors, that take more of a relationship based for the fundraising part, and educating the donors. You know, sometimes I think, oh, they give us a lot of money, but do we really tell them what we're what we're about and and do we ask them to, do we ask them to critique our our annual report? Or do we ask them to, you know? Do ask them to review the golf or some assignments, just to say, hey, what do you what do you think you know? You know? And I've been guilty of this too, or they don't really need to know that. But sometimes it's, you know, it's just a courtesy, and maybe they see something. Hey, you know, I wouldn't put these two guys together because they're competitors or whatnot, but have we? Do we ask donors and, and our board, you know, their for their thoughts and, and, you know, so I think, yeah, five years down the road, it, it'll be interesting. I like to joke. I hope I'm retired by then, but my, my son, will be going into college then, so I think I'm going to still be working to to fund his college, his college adventure. But is, is he in scouting? He was in scouts we I was his den leader. He was one of the first lion cubs that we, that we had here in Lincoln, as lion cubs started and we got through arrow of light. And then he went to a first couple of his troop meetings. And then other other things got. Got to compete for his time, music, music in school. And it happens, baseball and basketball and our, our cub Dan went through that covid, those two covid years, and so it, it was. It was pretty rough. I. Yeah, I would like to see, it's going to be interesting to see the the effects that covid has had on that, on that group of kids that you know for basically three years actually, here in Lincoln. Three years were, you know, my son, yeah, third grade year. Half Year was work, learning from home. Yeah. Fourth grade year was all mask. Fifth grade year was, I think, all masks. So, you know, but a lot of those extracurricular activities for those three years, we weren't meeting in churches. We weren't, you know, we weren't doing the social things. I I'm curious to see how that, how that affects them down the road. And there were a lot of organizations that it covid really struggled. You know, the the service clubs that had, you know, relied on those weekly meetings, and those that weekly human interaction, those really struggled, yeah, and so he still, you know, he still reminds me when we're doing stuff, he's like, oh, gotta take this. Gotta be prepared, Dad, we don't. We don't need three bags for full of stuff. But okay, yep, you're, you're right. We need to, we need to be prepared. So had a, we had a great time in in Cub Scouts, and several of several the kids in Cub Scouts are now all on the baseball team and the basketball team and several of the parents. It's funny because few of the parents that I was the den leader for their kid, they're now the coach. They're the baseball and basketball coach for my son. So that just takes a village. Michael Hingson ** 1:06:36 It does well if people want to support the heartland Cancer Foundation and reach out to you. How do they do that? Chris Blum ** 1:06:43 It's, it's, again, real simple. Go online, Heartland Cancer Foundation, org, click the donate button. Or they can, and they can, you know, make a donation, cash check. You know, we can take, we can take Venmo, you know, we'll take, we can take stock gifts, you know, we, we can help, help anybody out who's willing to, to make an impact for cancer patients here in Nebraska. But yeah, our website, Heartland Cancer Foundation, org, tells you all about us. If you're, you know, if you're want to come to our Mardi Gras gala February 17, it's a that's a good time. It's like being in New Orleans without having to go to New Orleans. We we do a golf tournament in August here. So if you're, if you're a golfer, and find yourself in Lincoln, Nebraska, we'd love to have you at our at firethorne Country Club. Michael Hingson ** 1:07:43 And if, if they'd like to chat with you, how can they do that? Chris Blum ** 1:07:47 It's very, very easy. You can send me an email at Chris at Heartland, Cancer foundation.org, or you can can reach out to me cell phone number 972-835-5747, that's a that's a Texas number. I just learned that number. I wasn't going to relearn a new number when I moved to Lincoln here. So I actually use that to my advantage, because when it comes up, people think, Oh, they're calling me about lapsed auto insurance or life insurance. So I get to leave a voicemail, and they're like, Oh, the heartland Cancer Foundation. Michael Hingson ** 1:08:22 Okay, yeah. Well, Chris, I want to thank you for spending all this time with us. I value it and really appreciate you telling us all the things that you have and on all the insights. It's been very educational for me and inspiring, and I hope it has been for everyone listening. I hope that you all enjoyed Chris's comments. We'd love to hear from you. Of course, as I always ask, I love a five star rating from you, if you would please, wherever you're listening to us, if you'd like to reach out to me. It's easy. It's Michael, H, I M, I C, H, A, E, L, H I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, E.com, or go to our podcast page, www.michaelhinkson.com/podcast and Michael Hingson is spelled M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, S O Ncom/podcast, but again, love to get five star rating from you. We value that very highly. And any opinions and comments that you'd like to make love to read them. And so Chris, for you and any of you listening, if you know anyone else who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, please let us know. We're always looking for people. And I have to ask Chris, since she said this is your first podcast, how did it go for you? Chris Blum ** 1:09:38 Well, I enjoyed it. I guess probably need to get, need to get the see how many rating, five star ratings you get. Yeah, we'll have to see how that goes. But yeah, very, very nice. It. It was good. Brought me with the headset and the microphone. It brought me back to my radio radio station days in college, Michael Hingson ** 1:09:58 and so I know the feeling. Well, yeah, well, Chris Blum ** 1:10:01 me too. If you need, need another speaker down the road, I can, I can come up with some, some other topics to talk about, I guess. Michael Hingson ** 1:10:09 Well, if you want to, you're welcome to to do that. If you want to shoot some more questions and all that, let's, let's do it again. Always will be, I'm always ready. Yeah, happy, Chris Blum ** 1:10:20 happy to do it. But let's, let's see how many of your star ratings you get. If you get like, half a star for this one, then you're probably like, Yeah, we're gonna lose Chris's email. Nah. Michael Hingson ** 1:10:29 Never happened. Well, thanks once again for being here and for all your time. All right. Thank Chris Blum ** 1:10:35 you very much, Michael. **Michael Hingson ** 1:10:40 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. 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