Bill Carroll on The Art & Science of Hiring, with Matt Solomon for CPA Trendlines

CPA Trendlines Podcasts

With Matt Solomon for CPA Trendlines

Bill Carroll, CEO of Hoops HR, reveals the three keys to smart hiring for accounting firms, in this conversation with Matt Solomon.

"We look at retention in really three key areas," Carroll says. "It's security for that person. A lot of that has to do with income, but a lot of that has to do with how they're treated internally as a person. How does the organization engage in conflict? How do they solve a conflict? Is there ultimately a resolution? There's a security aspect to that, and pay is just a portion of that."

"Care is another," Carroll adds. "Security plus care. We look at care as benefits packages or access to benefit packages. Then there's retirement and perks, which should really be aligned with your core values."

The third element is appreciation. "Appreciation will ultimately lead to retention. We all know that experiences drive beliefs, beliefs drive behaviors, and behaviors drive results."

Matt Solomon: Hello, everybody. Matt Solomon here, CEO of the Center for Enlightened Business. It is my honor, my deep pleasure and privilege to introduce everybody to Bill Carroll, the founder and CEO of Hoops HR. Bill and his team are on a mission to revolutionize the way that companies hire, and I can attest to the fact that they are absolutely doing that. Bill, welcome, man. Great to have you here and thanks for spending time with us today.

Bill Carroll: Hey, thanks for having, Matt. Excited to be here and spend a few minutes with you.

Matt: Me too, it's a privilege. I know you have a lot of knowledge and information, especially as it comes to hiring. Here's the deal. I want to start off with the question, for most people hiring, it's an art and a science that they just can't seem to manage, that they can't seem to get right. What do you see as the common pitfalls, the common mistakes or challenges that people are doing in the hiring process? What are they missing, Bill?

Bill: I think what we see the most, and it makes sense, we work with a lot of organizations that are sub 200 employees, typically entrepreneur-led, and hiring is a second thought as opposed to a more proactive. I would say one of the biggest pitfalls we see is moving too fast through the process and not taking their time to really understand the kind of candidate they're looking for, how does that candidate align with their culture? Not only just the job responsibilities, but all of the other intangibles that that candidate needs to bring and then really be thoughtful through that process to determine the right fit.

Matt: I love that. We've made some mishires in our past and it's amazing. Sometimes, there's top performers that are just totally the wrong cultural fit. It's so hard to make a move like that, but the cultural side of it is so important. The other side of it is we've had people who were great cultural fits that just couldn't do the job and finding the balance of those two things is always a challenge. Certainly, the business can't move forward when those things are not perfectly in alignment, so I love that. Could you tell me, Bill, what are the great misconceptions around hiring? What do you see people are coming to the table with that maybe information that's not accurate or practices that are not accurate for hiring top-down?

Bill: The one that we see the most is that the person with the skill is the person I should hire when really, we need to look at it in a more holistic view. Skill is absolutely important. Even intelligence, IQ is the other piece of it, but then there's this whole other side of the equation that encompasses leadership and just interaction with people and cultural fit and all of those intangibles. We put those into what we call the EQ bucket, the emotional, intelligence bucket. Having a well-rounded ideal candidate profile really helps organizations understand and get the right person the first time, because it's extremely expensive.

As you know and I've experienced, we've all experienced it, it's extremely expensive to not get the right hire. What I would tell you is on the other side, when we see a lot of transitioning out of employees, it's never because they weren't smart enough and it's rarely because they didn't have the right skill or the right words on their resumes. It was typically because they didn't handle internal conflict well, they weren't aligned with the cultural values and for some reason, it just didn't click. That's what we continue to hear on the transitioning side. We want to make sure we solve that and account for that on the front side.

Matt: I love it. It's so easy, especially I think in the accounting industry to look at IQ to see, "Does this person have the skills?" Obviously, it's important that they can do the job, but I think so many people miss the EQ, the emotional intelligence. I love that you speak to that. It's such an intangible thing, it's probably pretty hard to measure, I would imagine. When you can nail that too, then you have the holistic solution, somebody who can do the job, but also be in the job and be part of the team at the next level. I love that.

Bill: What I would tell you is it is hard to measure, it is hard to glean. What we work with our clients on is understanding who within your organization can start to dissect and understand that within a person. We are big proponents of multiple people in the interviews. I'll tell you for myself, they won't let me in an interview [laughs] because I'm so excited about the business that I ultimately ended up selling the candidate on why they should go to work with us. Having people that understand and see different things, just different perspectives, really helps with that interview process. It's important.

Matt: Thanks to your support. We've been bringing in additional people to our interviews and we're catching things that I never would have caught myself when I was doing the process alone for the last couple of years. I love that. I think it's perfectly right on. Everybody does bring something else to the table. Bill, we're also dealing with a lot of uncertainty. We're dealing with a work environment that has just been disrupted in a lot of ways. COVID has rocked the world, there's a lot more remote workers out there. What are you seeing as a result of that in terms of hiring, in terms of working? What's up?

Bill: It's an environment like we've never seen before. Organizations are having to move in different directions, especially on the technology front. Many organizations have made significant investments in the virtual and meeting online and the Zoom meetings and all of those things. The technology is now in place to do even online interviews and video interviews and things along those lines. It's also opened up the opportunity to recruit from all over the United States or Canada, or all over the world, candidly, and really get the best people, the right fit. When I say the right fit, it's everything that we just talked about, not only the IQ skills and an EQ for your business.

They're out there and it can really change the economic impact of your organization as well. It's obviously a little bit less expensive to go to certain states and get high levels of talent as opposed to going to maybe New York or California or one of the higher priced areas. It's really just opened up the flood gates for opportunity for employers right now. I'll tell you, the top people that are out there, we talk to them all the time. We play on both sides of the equation. We are actually recruiting people away from organizations and they're looking for organizations that are moving in this direction.

They've grown accustomed to being at home, in being able to go to the soccer practice at 5:30 as opposed to sitting in traffic for an hour. The opportunity for them, they're a lot more open to learning about those opportunities as well.

Matt: We have headquarters in New York, we have offices in California. We've been hiring people all over the country now. What's really nice about it is we're getting a discount on top talent. We're also able to pay people more than they would be if they were just staying in their state work, and so it's a win-win. The other side of it is that they have a quality of life now that they've never had before. We're getting some of the happiest people that have ever worked with us. We know that the dogs are going to bark in the background like everybody knows now because of COVID, and we know that they're going to need to duck out and pick up their kids or do something, whatever it is.

It's been an incredible environment for us. It's been amazing to not only get a discount on top talent, but to give a quality of life to somebody that we didn't have before.

Bill: It's fantastic. That's fantastic.

Matt: I want to understand, when you do find the right person, when you do find somebody with the right IQ, with the right EQ, they're good cultural fits, they have the skills, their values are deeply aligned with yours, what's the key to retaining those people? How do you actually hold on and keep top talent? I know it's one of the largest over the last 20 years, every accounting report I've ever seen, the issue is about retaining top talent. What are the secrets? Is there a piece of gold that you can give us before we leave?

Bill: Yes, absolutely. We look at retention in really three key areas. It's security for that person. A lot of that has to do with income, but a lot of that has to do with how they're treated internally as a person. How does the organization engage in conflict? How do they solve conflict? Is there ultimately resolution? There's a security aspect to that, and pay is just a portion of that. Honestly, you have to be competitive in your pay. That's the one thing.

Care is another, security plus care. We look at care as benefit packages or access to benefit packages. Even if the employer is not able to maybe pay as much or kick in what they ultimately like to, at least, there's an offering there. That really goes to, yes, it's an offering, but it also speaks to, again, this security side of it that the employer is, "They care about me and my family and my well-being." Then there's retirement and perks and what we throw into all the perks. Those are great and you see a lot of organizations that, "Hey, lunch every Friday," or whatever it is. The perks, those should really be aligned with your core values.

If you're not a partying company, you're not a partying person, but a lot like you, Matt, you're about meaningful, purposeful relationships, the perks associated with your business are going to look very, very different than a Facebook or Google or any of those places. It's really security, care, and appreciation will ultimately leave lead to retention of those folks. I would just kind of wrap it all up in what we call an experience. What is your overall talent experience? As you know, there's ton of research out there on this and we all know that experiences drive beliefs, beliefs drive behaviors, and behaviors drive results.

Starting on that lowest level of taking an account for what your overall talent experience looks like, not just from your point of view because you think it's good, put yourself in the employee's point of view and look at it from their side. We had one of our customers look at the experience around their health insurance, for example, and it wasn't very good. They couldn't read and so they would go to the doctor, it was a high copay. Then they get this benefit thing in the mail and they're walking through this as one of their employees and realizing, "Wow, we need to add additional help and support around this particular program."

It may not just be the program. It may be the support that you offer your employees around those programs that makes all the difference in the world.